Rumbrae, no one is saying that an organized martial arts competition is the same as a real street fight. I think everybody on this thread knows the difference. Having said that, I believe it is very important to develop skills that can be used in a "real" situation because everything else being equal, the person with the better fighting skills will win. Sure, people can get hurt by objects on the ground, but that goes for both fighters.

I've been in three street fights and all of them went to the ground. All three were on the sidewalk. The concrete was hard but in no way prevented grappling. So in my limited personal experience, grappling was not inhibited by dangerous ground objects. (I must be one of the few people that has never gotten in a fight in a tool shop).

I don't think you understand the concept of "training". Training (I view organized competetions as training) should be perfomed in a manner to minimize serious injury. How stupid would it be to compete in a dog brothers competition without gloves or head gear. People would suffer permanent disabling injuries or death. The military use blanks and laser sensors during war games. They don't shoot each other with real bullets.

You said that you are more afraid to fight a person with no MA training than a person with MA training. Everything else being equal, why in the world would you fear somebody who has no formal fight training than somebody who is an expert or professional fighter? I would much rather go up against a Tito Ortiz who has never trained in MA, than the present Tito Ortiz.

rumbrae,
I'm sorry for doubting your exsperiance, Cave warfair with BB guns sounds terrable. You are right, if someone had a BB gun I would never have the chance to take them down, you can put an eye out with one of those things! Also I agree with you that a bicycle is a serious weapon and shouldn't be taken lightly! I would much rather fight Tim (A well trained professional) then you (¿x-child BB sniper?), as Tim would just beat me up and get it over with, You would prolly recount boyhood hijinx till I killed myself!

I didn't know we had a bad ass street fighter in our midst. Thanks for posting your account of stupid childhood antics and for telling us how "real" street fights go down. LOL .

Your dose or reality only exist in your own childhood fantasy. You are welcome to come down for some not so real fight with clean shaven professionals.

You're like a bad ass version of Tom Sawyer, Rumbrae...Kind of like a young Tyler Durden. I'm impressed.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

slide...

I have to go check on my power animal. Later.

Oh please!

These unsubstantiated claims are nothing more that primitive chest thumping, Rumbrae. Your tales of reality could be nothing more than a mixture or action movies, afternoon specials, and a little bit of kung fu theatre.

Proof is in the showing not the telling. Show us photos or videos of your "real fights" and maybe you can get some kind of credibility in what you say.

In my opinion you're a child filled with hot air who has played too many violent video games and watched too many Vin Diesel movies. Grow up, boy!

Great photos, kudos to the photographer.

Rumbrae, you're an idiot!

Here's a clean shaven professional. He doesn't look dangerous until you put a couple pints of beer in him.

"He doesn't look dangerous..."

Take a closer look at the picture, the bone chilling stare...

that photo was taken at the moment he realized someone put Icy Hot in his jock-strap.

I once went drinking with Meynard, Matt and Chris on my birthday. It was in Chinatown of all places. I think I roughed them all up (aggressive hugging, knee slapping and heavy breathing) and then pissed myself. After that I threw up in my own lap. This story can be verified by many eye witnesses.

The above scenario will be repeated on May 14...my 35th birthday. Beware, I've been practicing! Call 310/804-4476 for more info.

And the sport fans roar.



Maynerd, have you ever thought that playing the Smug Punk might bring greater rewards with WWF?

Competition vs. Street fighting was recently addressed on another thread, but for the moment I can't find it so I'll just add to this one since two relevant posters, namely Cujo and Runbrae, brought up some interesting ideas that I'd like to comment on. Or, at least get some feedback...

The difference as I see it between real fights and professional fights is not really the location so much as the state of mind. Professionals have a motive for fighting each other. Usually it is because of a common interst. Both practitioners want to learn to fight or increase their current knowledge of fighting skills. And both are willing participants.

Street fighters have a different motive. They want to:
1) whoop ass, or
2) prevent their own ass from being whooped.

For purposes of discussion, 1) is the instigator, and a willing participant in the fight. And 2) is the unwilling participant, a victim of circumstances. While a 1) can fight a 1), and a 1) can fight a 2), there will never be two 2)'s fighting each other.

Either malicious individuals or professionals, (when they forget to shave, or) when they forget to be professional, might sometimes take to the streets and end up as a 1): slinking down the alley looking for a fight. They might also, remebering to shave, take to the streets for a simple errand and find themselves a 2), a victim of circumstances.

Their only difference is their mindset, but the outcome of the fight could be swayed by either's experience or training. And, before I blabber too much, I'd like to add that the trained fighter possesses potentially sharper skills for one reason. That reason is that he knows how much power, technique, or rage to use to accomplish his goal of either 1) or 2). comments please.. sysop feels free to begin a new thread.

Mind frame is a good point.

My experience is that people who fight strangers in reality are not fighters, they are assasins. They are collecting and you are in their way. That is their full time job, their reality, their way of life, 24/7. If a kid who smokes dope on the odd occasion can mark a narcotics officer a mile away, imagine the mindframe of an assasin.

What I see is the vast majority of people who take MA don't know the street, don't belong there, and they don't want to be there. It clearly isn't their place. They have concern for their well being and because of that go to a safe zone in their spare time to learn where they won't get hurt(as as stated by sport fans above). So they wind up at best with a practice that becomes habit, a mindframe based on safe sport.

The difference between those two mindsets is simply black and white. However, it's obvious based on mind frame of the sport fans here that they think they have better odds in any environment.

What's interesting is the things I did mentioned above was when I was a kid. Here there are full grown adults roleplaying their street fighting fantasies like weekend warriors, posting their photos on a web site and hi-fiving each other.

Go figure on that frame of mind...

Someone once posted on this forum the emotional differences between "ritual" fighting and "survival" fighting, and the different physiological effects ensuing from these mind-sets. I feel these differences are far, far more significant than just differences in technique. This leads me to the observation that most "streetfights" are nothing more than stupidly brutal versions of ritual fighting, aggravated by ego. True survival situations would be hold-ups at gunpoint, car-jackings, vicious dog, saving a loved one, etc.

Average Schmuck,
Good points on mindset being the major difference between sport fights (and training for that matter) and real fights. Skill sets (provided training is realistic) will transfer quite readily.

Rumbrae,
As a side note, several of my clean shaven sport fighters have been in street fights (in much more dangerous than normal street fight circumstances) in the last couple of years. In each case my (adult) clean shaven students have totally dominated their attackers, ending the fights very quickly.

ps Interesting stories.

rumbrae,

"My experience is that people who fight strangers in reality are not fighters, they are assasins. They are collecting and you are in their way. That is their full time job, their reality, their way of life, 24/7. If a kid who smokes dope on the odd occasion can mark a narcotics officer a mile away, imagine the mindframe of an assasin. "

A: what is your "experience"?
B: Are you on the same planet I am?

-Chris

Hello,

I think there 's something to be learned from both points of view.

Technically a trained fighter gains advantages.

Strategically if the fighter advertises and relies on these advantages and someone who with an 'assasin' mindset decides to hurt them, then they will find a way to get around those skills.

Fortunately I think there are relatively few people around with that kind of thinking, and even fewer of them who would want to target someone like me. That is to say I've never been targeted.

I don't know what training would be useful in the last situation, but I bet it would have a physical component.

I think the majority of street fights come from badly channeled testosterone, rather than premeditated malice. In which case my money's on the trained fighter.

Rumbrae,
Hats off to your experience, grueling, though it must have been. However, I consider fantasies and weekend-warrior-high-fiving immensely more civilized than actual killing or trying to fathom the mind of an assassin.

I'm not saying that you don't, but your tone comes across more on the side of the spiteful than the heuristic.

Tangentially, the assassins used to be a secret force who smoked hashish (thereby altering their "normal" mindset) before they went out to kill for their boss. Knowing such, I would think that those who ascribe to such behavior (the killing, mostly) belong in a penal instutution or the electric chair.

Cheers

Author Marc McYoung says much as Kenneth Sohl did, that many fights are started because the first party is in pain, as in has a lousy life, a looser, or mad at the world, can't get laid, and just can't stand to see anyone not equally miserable.

Rumbrae, the bottom line is that everything else being equal, a person who trains in MA is a better fighter than a person who does not train. Isn't it obvious?