No, James,
KFSS practicioners are so deadly an in class ass whipping would be like a nuclear war. Every KFSS class is like a meeting of World Powers. Everyone attending knows everyone else in attendance could easily annialate them. So no one starts any •••• because they know someone else would end the ••••.

WHY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT!

Rudeboy OUT!

Wow!

"every KFSS class is like a meeting of World Powers. Everyone knows everyone else in attendance could easily annialate them."

I just had to quote that. It's going to be a classic.

I understand that KFSS class is like a meeting of high level dungeon masters or comic book super heroes. Wow! Can I play too?

Rudeboy, how do you know that, have you ever seen it, or are you saying that because that what your teachers tell you?

Rudeboy, I guess I don't understand that because I have never seen it. Only time I've seen a KFSS fighter was when he got taken down and his arm snapped by a "sports fighter".

James, have you ever 'seen' a fart? No, but you believe in them.

That clip of the KFSS fighter getting his arm tweaked was an unfortunate culmination of events which everyone just glosses over.

First, the KFSS fighter had the stomach flu.

Second, the MMA fighter showed up to the school wearing a wig, lipstick and a dress.

Third, the KFSS fighter had to euthanize his 14 year old dog that morning (and in the mother of all coincidences the MMA fighter had the same name as the dead dog).

Forth, the KFSS fighter swore to become pacifististic in his last words to the dog.

Fith, If you see the UNEDITED version, you will her the KFSS pacifits chanting "conscientious objector" over and over.

The man trancended violence and human suffering only to experience violence and suffering.

Rudeboy OUT!

I am convinced, KFSS is the best deadliest art. I no longer think it sucks.

wow koojo you refuse knowledge from jack,
you refuse logic from a 15 y/o,
and you refuse philosophy from old timer,
but you accept it from rudeboy!!!!!!!!!!!
oh dear we have a breakthrough
-ed

James, have you ever "seen" a pussy? No, but you believe in them.
Maybe big bald betty can teach you.

flubbed up

Old Timer,

Well, when I saw Jimmy after training in Taiwan I'd ask him about the differences between what I'd learned and how we did similar things in San Soo.

For example, in the Internal styles, all strikes come straight out from the center of the body. San Soo will strike from different angles (for example you may be facing north but strike to the east). I asked Jimmy about it. He told me that striking from the center will be more powerful in general, but it is sometimes necessary to strike at an angle to maintain the element of surprise. That's an example of the San Soo way. I had a lot of questions at the time.

Like most people, I've only ever seen the picture of Jimmy with the two books, I've never actually seen them. When I returned to the States I offered to translate some of the information in the books, but Bernie declined the offer.

Although how any information is interpreted is a personal matter, I don't believe I've been hostile anywhere on this thread.

Old Timer, you spent a lot more time with Jimmy than I did, did he ever show the books to his students?

Tim,

I was with Jimmy in the late 70's. I saw only pictures of the books and was told they were 400 years old that is why they were sequestered.

I was also told that there was three books. One about hand-to-hand. One about form. And one about phiolophy or culture including medicinal arts.

Do you now what happened to the books? Some people are saying Jimmy had them hidden and when he died nobody knew where they were - to this day.

Also about form. I was always under the impression that forms in san soo were used as catalogs of strikes, to create a variety of strikes to be used inside hand-to-hand technique.

Don't taoist arts use forms for more traditional uses such as training in flexibility, timing etc?

Do you know of any other art that catalogs strikes through the forms?

I remeber Jimmy saying you do not use forms to figt but that you incorporate differnt strikes from the forms to broaden the adaptability of the technique. To widen it from its base

How many forms were there?

I have read parts of this thread and the BJJ people seem very hostile. Why do they hate san soo? Is it cultural?

Old Timer, you and Jack seem to be the only ones that have a deep knowledege of San Soo and level heads although Jack is Bizare... to say the least. There are no discussion boards that I have found regarding san soo that have access to anyone with experience.

If I wanted to continue in san soo what school would you recomend and where is it? Do you know of any san soo discussion boards?

Tim - I have never seen the books. I only know one person beside JP who says he has seen them.

Regarding what is the "difference?"

Jimmy said if you practice KFSS and use it in a tournament it is not KFSS.

A tournament KFSS participant does not exist. The mere fact that one who professes to be a KFSS practitioner would enter a tournament disqualifies him from using (actually misusing) what he claims to know - KFSS.

KFSS is used for street use. Without the element of surprise, strategy and its unique tactics, it is reduced to techniques.

Although KFSS is by far the most comprehensive art I have seen, with its hundreds of forms and variety of techniques, it is the principles of its usage that defines it and sets it apart from martial arts.

Jerry L,

All martial arts use forms as catalogs or templates for strikes, kicks and body mechanics related to fighting. (Tai Ji Chuan included).

BJJ people in general don't 'hate KFSS' (most probably have never heard of KFSS) what many of the posters here hate is someone who seems to be a blowhard, know-it-all, who says their art is the best, and goes on to say that anyone claiming to use KFSS in competition have, by default ruined their KFSS credibility. (Especially blowhard, know-it-alls who post unregistered as several different names to agree with themselves and bolster their own oppinion.)

Over my years of training I've learned (and practiced) many 'F-em up' techniques, techniques that would absolutely put my opponent in the hospital, or worse. However, in a competition or sparring I would not attempt any these techniques. When I am sparring, I mentally notice where one of those horrible, deadly techniques might work, but having never actually used them at realistic speed against non-cooperative opponents, it is doubtful I could ever successfully administer them in the heat-of-battle. (the way some folks in KFSS present themselves, their entire style is based on that scenario, which makes them appear a little goofy).
I'm not saying some KFSS practitioners aren't good fighters, nor do I dislike what I've seen of the style. I'm just pointing out why some of the KFSS posters here have drawn criticism)

true, competition is not street fighting. But anyone who excels in sport combat competition will have a more applicable understanding of fighting and body usage than a person who has only done forms and rehearsed, non-resistant training; element of surprise included. Also, a hardcore street fighter will have his hands full if he engages an experinced sport fighter.

In the pictures I've seen of Jimmy holding two of his ancient books, they are leather-bound, modern books. If they are 400 years old they would be scrolls.

Shane

you would think that the books would be in the leather bindings to keep them safe or they would have been translated and the scrolls not even shown because of the value of them.
-ed

Jerry,

No, I don't know what happened to the books. I assume that Bernie has them.

Most of the Chinese styles I've been exposed to use forms to catalogue techniques and encode strategy.

I don't think most BJJ fighters hate San Soo, like Shane said above, most haven't even heard of San Soo. I do believe most people on the net like to argue, about most anything.

Old Timer,

I agree, you can't use San Soo in a tournament.

Tim,
I may regret saying this. Especially here... But..
After Jimmy died, I also offered to translate the books. Bernie said they were in "ancient Chinese" and ..... I wrote back informing her I was currently (at that time) in the Dept. of East Asian Languages and Lit. doing my degree in Chinese Lit. and could actually do the translation as a special study class with the help of my Prof.
I never heard back. I saw J.P. recently and I seem to remember him saying he does not have access to the books.

I know who has Jimmy's books!

wow koojo i bet you fell more special than brownies
-ed

do brownies even feel?

So where are they?

Are they really lost?

Do you think the san soo community desreves an ansewer to this question?

I have en=ven heard some say that the books are a hoax.

Do you think that is true?

I once heard Jimmy say that san soo was such a part of him that he couldn't make a mistake, that everything he did was correct because his knowledge was so deep?

Do you think he looked up his daily lessons or were they created on the spot?

Again, do you know of any knowledgable san soo discussion boards or do you have friends in san soo that would consider ansering questions.

Where would I go to further my san soo education. I live in Temecula but will drive an hour or so each way.

Fell, not felt. B2, can't you read?