Bai He-she
What, you afraid of the real world sunshine?
Why are you so stinking mad? Steroids?

Take a walk, enjoy the world, forget about competition.

In other words, get a life.

Maybe you and Maynard can take a vacation to San Fransisco?

Mad? I'm having a blast! This is the best thread ever my B.O.B.* friend!

(* Blue Oyster Bound)

Hmmm San Fran? What to visit you?

Yes, I agree this is the best thread ever.
But not because of you.

Jack Vincent
Old Timer
Apprentice

These people are the ones that have a clue, that make this site worth reading.

Name another thread that has done this good.
Can't? Me neither. Go figure.

You sound like a real rough he-man. That's real nice for you and your life partner.
Have a pleasant life.
HCP

You have a great life as well. My regards to you and your husband.

We're not ignorant, nor ••••••••. You and you're ilk have been less than cordial and rather non-sensical.

To espouse that competing or practicing in a non-cooperative manner against skilled opponents is "crap" in terms of self defense and martial arts, is ludicrous.
That is the REAL point.

Then there was a lot of ink sprayed in the water and we started talking about Teenage Columbians, Drugs, Sealk Teams and anything else that is most probably suited to a made for Cable Seagal
movie.

There were a few shots taken at Tim too...
"Long on dedication, short on personality".
Like personality ever saved anyone's ass.
As far as Martial Arts go? More people should have less personality and more dedication. In that Tim is setting a great example and the results are the proof in the pudding.

And that's the truth Ruth, or whatever your real name is. Until you prove it otherwise or validate some of your training in a similar fashion on behalf of KFSS, I wonder what you are railing against? Tim makes Kung-Fu as a whole look good and represents it well.

BAI-HE

"To espouse that competing or practicing in a non-cooperative manner against skilled opponents is "crap" in terms of self defense and martial arts, is ludicrous.

That is the REAL point."

I have been diligently keeping up with the thread. I have not seen that Jack or anybody else has said that the sparring or training is crap, ludicrous etc.

Please cut and paste where this was said. I have been in SS for years. Although Jack is a smart ass and megalomaniac, his over all point seems to me that KF should be used outside the studio to improve the world. This BTW is a basic Buddhist philosophy that is to contribute to your community. Selflessness.

I see what Jack is doing and how he is doing it. You should read a little deeper and you will see what is going on.

You and others are taking all this for its surface value. There are deeper meanings.

However Jack is being obtuse and provocative, really antagonizing. I can see a reason for this also. He is illustrating psychology of the mind and body.

Jimmy spoke often about this. It is the way my and body affect each other.

You have it all wrong regarding training through. As I said please cut and paste where Jack says training in crap.

His detractors have put words in his mouth most of the thread. That means they cannot argue his points so they corrupt them. Don't get me wrong, I do not condone Jack's methods, however I don not condemn them either.

"Then there was a lot of ink sprayed in the water and we started talking about Teenage Columbians, Drugs, Sealk Teams and anything else that is most probably suited to a made for Cable Seagal movie."

I find these parts of Jack's post entertaining.

"There were a few shots taken at Tim too...
"Long on dedication, short on personality".
Like personality ever saved anyone's ass.
As far as Martial Arts go? More people should have less personality and more dedication. In that Tim is setting a great example and the results are the proof in the pudding."

You could have a point regarding less personality, more dedication. I think the optimum would be more dedication and more benevolent personality.

I do believe that Tim or any body is not immune to Jack's wit and smart-ass remarks. Jimmy used to say "A man is a man. If you make him anymore than that you have lost before you began".

"And that's the truth Ruth, or whatever your real name is. Until you prove it otherwise or validate some of your training in a similar fashion on behalf of KFSS, I wonder what you are railing against? Tim makes Kung-Fu as a whole look good and represents it well."

This thread has some great psychological social content. I do not think Jack, and I know I am not "railing” against anything. I see what Jack is railing for though (studying for many years with the same teacher makes this easier for me to see BTW).

He is saying that sports are entertainment and recreation.

Street fighting includes tactics and strategy that is much wider than competitive fighting.

With this, I whole-heartedly agree.

I see Jack providing a service in a hostile environment. And if Jack is who I think he is then that is what he does for a living. Provides service in hostile environments.

I think he enjoys enemies more than allies.

I think he is a tremendous asset to this site. I have learned from him and what appear to me his many posting names and personalities.

BAI-HE, inteligent observatios. However your previous displays of anger and resentment plays into the hands of others.

No. Jack derided "Competitive" Martial Arts as being unrealistic. That, to me, includes the entire spectrum of combative arts, including "competition heavy" MA's like MT, Western Boxing and Judo. These guys train hard and mean with lots of contact.

There is really nothing new they will see in street. Things can go sideways quick with no established rules or protections for fighters, but they know how to change their game. They are usually fit, well more accustomed to contact and technically refined due to hours spent testing their techniques against uncooperative partners.


As far as Jack goes? You know him personally. I don't. He's just another clown on the Net. I don't look for deeper psycological profundity or insight between his vulgar posts. I don't attach that sort of meaning or attachment to the words or baggage of "Electronic People". Jack may interest you as some sort of enlightened rogue or inane prophet, for me? I take him at face value and I am less than impressed.

"Jimmy" was probably an interesting guy. I don't know much about him. Maybe I'll read up. Maybe you and Jack can read up on guys like Hung Yi Sheng from our side of the fence and learn a bit about his art and life. He had his share of street fights and then some.

As far as Tim goes? I think he's a bit immune. He's far more accustomed to talking with his hands than his mouth. This stuff is his life.
A little respect would be nice.

As far as the Street? You don't have to tell me about that. I've been there and done that and got everything I deserved. Gave lessons and learned lessons.
I had a close friend growing up who was a boxer, it ran in the family. What he did in the ring and in the street were too very different things. In the street he could hold/hit, elbow, rabbit punch, headbutt, trip, gouge and knee. He did well.

apprentice here,
bai-he, good job at being able to post with using a brain for once.

but you never answered OLD TIMERs question:

"Please cut and paste where this was said. I have been in SS for years. Although Jack is a smart ass and megalomaniac, his over all point seems to me that KF should be used outside the studio to improve the world. This BTW is a basic Buddhist philosophy that is to contribute to your community. Selflessness."

try that and then you can have some say

and why dont you try to read deeper, maybe you dont see jack as we do but just give it a try at least. If you never try something you may end up regreting further on in life. Not saying you will, but its worth a shot.
so just try.
ttfn
apprentice

I'm bored- so, I picked archive pages from this post, at random, and cut and paste a few of jack's gems:

10/30/05 I asked--- “Jack, I'm curious, do you even know what the phrase "Kung Fu San Soo" actually means?”

10/30/05 Jack replied: “Boob,You go first and then I will correct you.”

11/01/05 Jack admits: “I see you are tired of me picking on you. Thin skin is not the mark of a kung fu man. tis tis” (it think he meant tsk, tsk,)

12/30/05 Jack chided: “Tim, are you down with these guys? Or are they live dummies for your lab experiments?” (sounds like he's insulting everyone who isn't Jack)

12/30/05 Jack insults: “Now for you bi – he man, You hypercritical and hypocritical slime between your mommies legs.”

12/31/05 Jack critiques: “And look at the face on that stooge - oo. Is he gay or what, Talk about a cum eatin grin”

2/13/06 Jack, again, tries to control other posters: “That a boy, good little dickheads, now go and play. Don't let me catch you postin like that again.”

2/16/06 Jack, again, “Why don't you discuss somethin you know nothin bout? Take out the "how to behave like a Bitch in 1 easy lesson.”

I will decide what I say when I say. Should "Old-Timer" like to ask again, he can show up and acquit himself of any questions. You should also feel free to make your own argument.
I am speaking to you, not the fluttering coatails of "Old Timer". Or am I?

Why don't you quote the Buddhist canon on the nature of Gong-Fu and it's role in the betterment of society. Jacks polluted words are his to own. How has he bettered society or showed any sense of "selflessness" or advanced the code of ethics and morals that benefit society.

I'll even give you the measure of including any "Toaist" Canons.
From whence will you quote? Please try and seperate the Fotune Cookie reality from the classic Chinese Philosophy.

I try and read something deeper, but you can't catch trout in a puddle.

You are now free to espouse whay tou think "Buddhism" is. Although vague in comment, you seem to be pushing s more Confucian ethical stance.


I can have some say now that I have brushed aside your over-reaching aspersions on my character and your pithy analysis of my mental/emotional state?

Thank you for that allowance. It means a great deal to me.


Best, BH

PS - Is this the part where you come back at me saying that I'm angry because I refute your notions of who I may or may not be.

Also,
Don't think for a minute that I
failed to notice that you ignored the "Meat"
of my post and picked at the "potatos".

It was an interesting "Psycho-sociological" event, with deeper meaning, or at least as much as I can attach myself to or "reach" for.

Truly fecken fascinating.

OOps I swore. I must be angry.

BH,

As asked before, and as requested by you -

Please cut and paste where Jack said that sparring or training is crap, ludicrous etc.

I am not trying to prove my rightness. However I am trying to make a point. Jack's opposition has been putting words in his mouth and attacking him with very little discussuion about his issues, and a lot of banter regarding his insults.

I think this is a vaild illustration of words being put into his mouth that lowers the credibility of his detractors. They are inflamed by his smart ass coment and loud personality but refuse to address his valid points.

Bob,

Those were some effective insults - however besides the point they are, thanks for Jack's greatests hits.

apprentice here,
damn geometry's a pain in the butt so here i am again.
bai-he, for once you act as if you have half a brain.
using logic and not using vulgarity, yes i just used it but not in a threatening way besides thinking that geometry should go to hell.
i think that you belive that i am Jack just disgiusing myself. Naw, would never do that. I couldnt even think of half the crap he says about having sex with Columbian teens.
Look at his inner meaning tho.
You dont need to use competition, theres much more to life than that.
There i just gave it to ya.
Most people on this site like to use psychological mind play. including me. Hell im fifteen and im always a step ahead of you. Not that hard. Just gotta consider all options. Just like life. You gotta see everything in a third person, first person, and birds eye view.
See what other people will think of your actions(such as friends, police, parents, etc) then see how you will react to thes actions, and then see what bad or evil ocurrences will happen because of your actions.
Tell me if im wrong but you did pretty much the same thing as me. Piss people off and then tell them that they are too angry because they do not realize that only competition and no actual meaning to what they study is bad for them. Nice try but it has already been done and with a much better affect.
Better luck next time.
ttfn
apprentice

Are you sure you are fifteen?

Must have had some good coaching.

"See what other people will think of your actions(such as friends, police, parents, etc) then see how you will react to thes actions, and then see what bad or evil ocurrences will happen because of your actions."

This is the base of artful action - realizing the affects of your actions. Apprentice understands this in an elementry way. I would consider this a deeper meaning of Jack's post.

Jack's post prompt you to interact with them. Leading you to answere your own questions. He said this in saying "knowledge discovered is more powerful than knowledge revealed" (something like that).

"Tell me if im wrong but you did pretty much the same thing as me. Piss people off and then tell them that they are too angry because they do not realize that only competition and no actual meaning to what they study is bad for them."

That is percise. Application of what you study makes it meaningful.

You could study medicne for 15 years but it really does not have much significance until you use it to heal someone.

apprentice here,
old timer, thanks for the compliment
chronologically, yes im fifteen and april 10th i'll be 16.
my coach is my dad, he's the one that has taught me most everything i know but some of the most important things that i have learned have came from learning from myself.
Love that qoute: "You could study medicne for 15 years but it really does not have much significance until you use it to heal someone."

You could study martial arts for a good chunk of your life and become a teacher but that doesnt mean you would be a good teacher.

ttfn
apprentice

I love that quote too- from now on, when I teach rape prevention courses, I'm going to tell the girls "all this preperation to protect yourself is meaningless and insignificant until you're attacked by a rapist".


Bob#2

You would be exactly right in saying that to them (if you are honest), and it would be very good to put it this way: All of this practice is insignificant untill you are attacked. Then it may very well save your life (significant).

Learning is insignificant unless it is used. I known someone that have spent 6 years studying physchology and then went to work for Sun Micro Systems. He made a lot of money and gained alot of knowledge. If you asked him what was significant and insignificant, I'd bet he'd say the knowledge that was applicable to real life (working and producing) was far superior to his college education,

When you use it, it becomes valuable. That's the chance you take when investing your time and money.

When they actually use it to protect themselves, it becomes significant. Until then it is only practice and theory, much like my new area research.

Many times I scout new investments and all that studying does not pay dividens until I invest.

If I do not invest in the area, although I learned somethiings, they are not signifigant because I did not apply the action of paying (investing) and all the time I spent learning is almost wasted.

The research is not a total waste, untill I use it to support an investment elsewhere.

I agree. I used to tell the ladies that the hard training would help them be more confident and project a more self-assured posture which would make them a less attractive target.
Silly me.

I wonder if your friend would have landed the same job without his scholastic resume.