"Interacting socially is the same, you have to have faith and belief in the kung fu philosophy."

Are you starting to see why I urge kung fu artist to know kung fu philosophy?

Why not teach them the skills to compete on the Big mat, not just the Little mat. Big matt victories are significant victories, my real estate mentor said this to me in the 80's "Jack, if you gonna be a bear, don't be a little Black Bear, be a big brown one, a Grizzly."

Big mat victories are for Grizzly. Little mat victories are for little Black Bears.

where do ninja turtles factor into this?

by adding lame replies.

apprentice here,
competion-rules, u get hurt too badly, ur pulled out
street-no rules, only the consideration of the guy kicking ur ass, which varies. if the guy on top of u painting the pavement red doesnt stop, is there really gonna be someone there to save ur sorry self? nope. in street fighting u learn fast and hard. u learn to not make mistakes faster.
it's just like being a little kid again, if u run into the edge of a counter and split ur head open, u sure as hell dont do it again. and when u make a dumb move in a fight, u dont do that again, learn the propper way, from kickin ass and gettin urs kicked.
ttfn
apprentice

hop....we laughed, we cried, we posted

TVD:
I very much appreciate the post, thank you.

gg+jack V. ... you two need to get a room. or just continue to pat each other on the back on this messageboard....

Jack,

You missed the point.

The point is personal growth comes from pushing yourself to do things that are outside your personal comfort zone. For most martial artists, competing with other comparable martial artists in front of crowds under pressure is an example. Personal growth is like earning money, once you have it, you can spend it wherever you want.

Kungfu philosophy isn't acquired by talking about it. You can pretend to be any sized bear you want, but it may not help much once you actually meet a bear.


Apprentice,

I'm curious, how many combat sports competitions have you won? How many street fights?

apprentice here,
i know it wasnt adressed to me, but wut about a guy that has a knife? is that enough "pressure" to be able to perform?
and dont think because u have money, its gonna last u forever if u know wut i mean.
oh and btw i'm not the type to put my trophies on the wall, they're kept in a drawer. credentials are not important.
ttfn
apprentice

One hot summer's day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. "Just the thing to quench my thirst," quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying:

credentials are not important. ttfn

How many competitions, streetfights etc.....

Does doing some cool throwing shiite in a Pub count, cause I did a really cool throw on someone the other week and they got totally polaxed.... p.s. we were both pissed !!!

TVD probably does not pat people on the back. He problably pushes their shoulder foward and some crazy kung fu move follows.....

Master Cartmell I stated thank you not to pat The Vincent Deity on the back but to simply state thanks for taking time out.

You Master Cartmell have always taken time from your busy schedule to address my emails personally. I have always thanked you for doing so. You are very professional in the way you conduct business.

Master Cartmell a Master is known from his habits. I could care less that you have written excellent material in book form. I made the the decision that I am going to come up from Mexico just to attend one of your seminars-not just to meet you and learn some kewl •••• but because you proved to me through your actions that you ARE masterful.

No I am not patting you on the back-I am stating a criterion by which I define a Master.

We live in a world full of selfish buttholes who only know existence through their own eyes and whose idea of friendship is you reaching out to them and not the other way around.

And besides I grew up in a house hold with a thankn-less individual. Perhaps this is why thanking people is important to me.

O yeah, Thanks Master Cartmell for addressing my email with problems getting my account going! My profile is up and everything is running!

Tim,

I didn't miss the point at all, you just do not want to concede it.

I thought a “touché Jack” would have been in order, but I know how you like to defend your rightness. Whatever.

“Kung fu philosophy isn’t acquired by talking about it.”

Funny your San Soo teacher sure talked about it a lot.

How then Mr. Cartmel, prêt tell, is it learned?

I suppose techniques are not learned by talking about them either.

Do you ever discuss techniques when you teach or on this “discussion” board.


The learning aspect of Kung Fu is 95% talk 5% acting.

The practice mode ranges from 85% to 15% talk and correspondently 15% to 85% acting.

The more you learn and refine your technique the less you need to talk.

The performance level is almost 100% action with occasional strategic talking.


This also applies to kung fu philosophy.

At first, it is almost all talk. Next, it is part refinement and part application. Finally, it is all application. Refining self-definition by using protection ability to secure your developed character, repeating this builds confidence in character. You use confidence in character to improve yourself, which improves all around you. Becoming a better human through learning protection techniques, which is essentially a learning apparatus that develops character, allows you to add to community and stand up for what is correct (something the "me" generation has not the back bone to do. Refering to O.C. people in general).

Step off the little mat and learn to use your kung fu on the big mat, by adding kung fu philosophy, thus becoming a complete warrior, not merely a technician.

I’m curious, were you absent the days Jimmy taught kung fu philosophy or like those who never asked about weapons, they never learned the staff or short sticks.

Hey, if weapons were not your interest I suppose you would not ask about them, same with philosophy.

I am curious, were weapons or kung fu philosophy of interest to you?

Do you know kung fu philosophy or weapons? Do you teach them?

I am not asking these questions facetiously.

P.S. Tim I reread your post and you said “Kung fu philosophy isn't acquired by talking about it. You can pretend to be any sized bear you want, but it may not help much once you actually meet a bear.”

I am assuming you mean kung fu technique isn’t learned by talking about it. Of course, it is not learned by “only” talking about it. Same with philosophy.

Regarding being a bear:

Once you have grown into your paws you no longer need to use them to fight bears to get your food. You learn to get your food by applying those paws in the most effective and efficient way. 99% of the time, that does not involve fighting.

I am curious, have you grown into your paws?

Regarding personal comfort zone I think you are unwilling to push yourself out of your personal comfort zone when it comes to kung fu philosophy. Too bad as it would supercharge your being and make you complete, which would supercharge your ability to challenge yourself off the matt and in the real world.

You guys berate the ol Vicente, but you need me more than the desert needs water. You just do not realize it yet because you are fixated on personal preference.


Pss - Jason you will make a great quire member once you perfect the butt lick. Start at a full horse. Fall on to your back while slipping your hands behind your legs grabing your ankles... well you figure out the rest. Once you have mastered that, ask Shanie about the deadly brown nose technique. A reminder, be sure to warm your beak or you could be rebuked. Then it would be back to the initial Quire lesson.

You guys know I love you or I wouldn't spend all my incredibly valuable time trying to help your poor lost Quire souls.

Toodles...

Jack "V" for Valuable Vincent... don't you love me, I sure do (gag barf).

"The learning aspect of Kung Fu is 95% talk 5% acting."

Not in my academy. Different people have different methods, I'll give a real world example of mine:

When I teach a technique, I talk about it, in great detail, I then demonstrate it until everyone has the right idea, this takes about 10 minutes. Then everyone actually practices what is taught for the rest of the hour, then they spar and see if they can apply what they are learning for real. I correct them as they work.

I'd say 10% talking, 90% doing.

The result? My students develop realistic skills quickly. They internalize the philosophy along with the technique, through actual practice that leads to self development. This prepares them for your big mat, where talking is what the losers do after they get their asses kicked by the doers.

Of course we love you.

"The learning aspect of Kung Fu is 95% talk 5% acting."

Lets see how Jack's philosophy translates to other physical activities:

The learning aspect of basketball is 95% talk 5% acting.

The learning aspect of golf is 95% talk 5% acting.

The learning aspect of swimming is 95% talk 5% acting.

The learning aspect of boxing is 95% talk 5% acting.

warmed nose & whipped cream........
Here goes.....

Where is the money to be made in instructing real combat? Life or death stuff. The big mat material.

You know, the stuff that is shared only between family as a sacred trust.

The money is to be made in sport and little mat sport stuff has SOME merit to it.

It was not my intention to lick butt....Who wants to do that? Smells like ••••!!!

A master does not have to say he is a mster, that is for others to say.

Letting people know that Master Cartmell is excellent at what he does and that he makes a living from..........Is that quire material?

Most instructors teach as a second or third job few are able to do it as the primary job. There is something to be said about that!

TVD- your right, it helps to warm the nose lest the outer rings of my anus pucker causing a suffocation of "rhino" proportions. Note to aformentioned technique above-using crém d'la azucar aids in sliding the nostrils out from betwixt the cheeks of my ailementary canals discontent.


I do not know Master Cartmell personally. However I do know one of his habits and it is masterful. In this way I know you as well TVD. Masterful.

"......Those encumbered by the weight of their sins cannot approach the Grail..."

After a taxing workout the limbs are heavy.....

In this physical world governed by the law of gravity is it really the body that is encumbered by this gravity?

Why study philosophy and understand the mind?

Understanding of the mind, body and an individuals space and relationship to the universe around them begins simply by "Knowing Thyself".

Aristotle's mystery school was nicknamed "The walking school" for the reason that its students spent alot of time talking and would engage in long walks whilst doing so.

The practice of deciet eventually leads to the truth being known and in this way deciet is truth. In the same way that talking eventually leads to action.

Thought you would enjoy this TVD.

For folks interested in Tim's method, he overly simplifed the curiculum in his post above.

After a few minutes of demonstrating a technique, students pair off and work on the technique 15-20 times each (working both left and right side)- then he'll repeat this method teaching counters and counters to the counters all of which are practiced repeatedly like the first until the students begin randomly countering and resisting fully within the framework of the particlar technique.
After class, willing students then begin free sparring.

I've been a regular student of Tim's for 10 years. I've learned something new and applicable to the 'big mat' in every class I've attended. (and during that time I've seen Tim spar hard with bodyguards, cops, swarthy Filipino's, MMA fighters and an FBI agent who flew in for lessons.)

Jack,
You're in Southern California regularly. Why don't you come by and participate in a free class? Afterward you can better comment on what is and isn't applicaple on the little AND the big mat. (that was your original point, wasnt it?).

I'm not trying to lure new students (classes are crowded enough) but I think you'd become less fixated if you see what you're raging against. You might be pleasantly surprised how much Tim reminds you of Jimmy. (which I suspect is the root of all your hostility on this board).

Peace,
Shane

Hostility smostility, those are your words - its called fun in my book.

Tim my man, I know you are a good egg, but you never ansewer my questions in my post. Good politician qualities.

First you mistake the learning aspect by including the practice mode within it.

Shane has a correct discription as he clearly defines the diference. The learning aspecy is a very short part of kung fu technique.

Then the practice mode where you define what works for you and what doesn't. This is where the majority of little mat practice takes place.

Finally the performance mode which shopuld last a life time. Big matt stuff.

As usual getting a response from you regarding the tough questions is difficult. It’s the “pick and choose what I want to answer” game.

Regarding your “I wanna-be-right” post. (Here is some kung fu philosophy: Wanting to be right one ceases to progress. Unable to admit that one does not know, stops understanding and true learning no longer exists).

You wrote:

”When I teach a technique, I talk about it, in great detail”

This is the learning aspect (talking).

“I then demonstrate it until everyone has the right idea, this takes about 10 minutes. Then everyone actually practices what is taught for the rest of the hour”

This is the practice mode, acting and asking about refinements in your workout.

“then they spar and see if they can apply what they are learning for real. I correct them as they work. “

That is the performance level.

“Overall” I agree that there is about 10% talking and 90% acting.

But I didn’t break it down “overall,” the break down was in parts, sections.

So much for you spins on it.


”The result? My students develop realistic skills quickly. They internalize the philosophy along with the technique, through actual practice that leads to self development. This prepares them for your big mat, where talking is what the losers do after they get their asses kicked by the doers.”


The big mat is not the world of martial competition.

It is the total world outside the kung fu studio.

Shane, this is hidden hostility and ego. Tim Tim Tim, thought the master was above all this earthly stuff, right Jason. Anyways a kung fu master teaches philosophy. According to previous post the consensus is that, you are a martial arts coach.

At least you Uncie doesn’t try to hide his hostility or ego. A will defined and accepted self definition negate the need to hide your true self.

So, Coach Cartmel,

It appears to me by your replies that either you now little about kung fu philosophy or do not care to talk about it.

Kung fu philosophy is not about the way techniques are administered.

It’s about the way you administer your self to life. It is strategy.

”Of course we love you.”

Hell yeah you love me, look at the number of posts and replies. Plus you nimwits have no other poster (or im-poster) who writes about such provocative and important subjects with such wit, content, sarcasm and zeal.

Fess up Tim, you know as much about kung fu philosophy (not the philosophy of techniques) as I know about Ba Gua or pea knuckle.

What was the story about am emperor and his wardrobe?

Overall Tim you are a hard head who is stuck on his preference (technician) that does not want to take the time to learn an additional aspect of kung fu that will make you and your students complete.

That’s OK. I still love you but to me that is an accurate reflection. And, you, like most do not care for a mirror that reflects shortcomings.

PS Shane, that was a decent post. Peace - (but its so boring). Life is for fun man. Its to live not to lack. (KF philo)