More from Steve Morris' website: http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/index.html

Some martial artists would have us believe that the reason why they don't take part in NHB/MMA/submission fighting competitions or engage in reality-based fighting and training methods is because the techniques of their tradition or system are too dangerous. However, whilst it is true that techniques such as eye gouging, biting, groin kicks, certain kinds of neck cranks and spinal locks should be prohibited in open competition and competitive fight training within the dojo or gymnasium, that leaves a tremendous amount of 'dangerous' techniques that still can be used, provided of course both fighters agree to certain rules, fully understand the tap-out option, wear mitts and gumshields, and that there is an experienced referee or someone equally responsible ready to immediately intervene if one of the fighters looks like he is going to be seriously injured. Deadly is as deadly does. In that if you never get to practice your dangerous techniques against someone fully intent on fighting back, how are you ever going to know whether or not they work? And how are you going to be able to apply them effectively, for which you need repeated practice? The truth is, it's better to be able to practice techniques that are not so dangerous under realistic conditions than never to be able to practice under realistic conditions techniques that are extremely dangerous. Interestingly, there isn't a big difference between being able to punch a man in the eye wearing a glove in competition or practice, or under more life-threatening circumstances to thumb him in the eye instead. Or instead of kicking him in the inside thigh, kick him in the groin; or after getting positional control with your head pressing against his, biting him in the neck or throat. Finding ways of realistically competitively fighting and training with a measure of safety is better than practicing in complete safety your deadly technique unrealistically on some compliant stooge or within some esoteric shadow boxing form.

Thanks, Tim!

True that!

Backarcher
Are you familiar with a Maryland wrestling coach named Slutzky?

he helped run the ISWA thing this weekend in B'more. He was pretty cool, he did sort of a 30 min seminar on converting folkstyle stuff to submission wrestling, a lot of catch/leg locking things.

The org. is cool too, chechk it out; www.iswa.us

Are elbows, knees and head butts allowed in competions? There are alot of great movements I never see in competition that are within the rules. Things like standing leg hooks, jumping double leg hooks, thigh levers and one my faves-the ankle pick.... How come no one seems to do them?

what kind of competitions?

Jason,

You'll often find many of the techniques that might work in a cooperative setting, or against an untrained or unsuspecting opponent will not work against a conditioned, trained opponent that is fighting back for real.

when you capitalize it, you make it look like you are trying to indicate that you are addressing ME, and not someone else...

Jason M. Struck, for ease of posting I believe I will change my name to post under. As far as types of competitions I mean like UFC and other MMA events like Pride etc....

Very good point Master Cartmell.

Even though I utilize cooperative 2 man sets for long sword (spada a doy dos mane) I like to warm up with Glima and Cornish Wrestling- friendly not combat style. It helps gives more insight into body mechanics, resistance, timing, distance etc...

I have noticed that some moves still work even though there is no cooperation!

testing, 123.

ok, its Liberi "of the freed".

If anyone has a similar name....tough poopy

jason (lower case),

Where did you learn Glima?

ahhhh......Glima is a mixed adventure. My high school wrestling coach had mentioned it one time in passing and I researched it.

Occasionally I would play a few games with my friends out back of my house. We are a bunch of over imaginative swashbuckler types who appreciated the low hold of Glima which is "seize and control" the opps left hip which is the sword bearing side and grab their rightupper thigh which is the dagger bearing side.

We did it for fun or as they say "holds of love" and not "holds of hate". Get your heads out of the gutter-its brotherly love!

I was not formaly trained and to be sure lacking a complete education in Glima!

Its a great way to get the blood pumping! In addition to this I also came across Cornish wrestling which utilizes holds on the upper body. As a student of motion I find it a great study!

None of my friends stuck with it....I went on to study written and video resources on Glima. You might get a kick out of this!

http://www.kr.is/glima/video/video_hidden/

You can imagine the amount of fun we use to have playing Glima king of the hill on a huge 200 yard steep incline behind the house I grew up in. In the winter we used to take a shoe string and tie it on to the front bolt area of old skateboard decks and snowboard down the hill.

Of course we thought it was fun to collide into on another at full speed all wrapped up in winter coats and 2 pairs of pants with a third layer of soggy sweat pants!

UFC: knees and elbows are legal, headbutts are not.

striking is not allowed when one combatant is on the ground but the other is standing (ie kicking him while he's down)

Leg locks are totally legal, and once upon a time there were competitors that focused on them (Shamrock). They are not commonly seen anymore in highlevel competition. Perhaps the vulnerability of your own legs when attacking your opponents makes them less popular? They are not commonly trained in many styles the way arm and blood submissions are, as they are often a little more dangerous to the trainees (often, by the time an ankle lock hurts, it's already too late). There haven't been a plethora of fighters from Sambo or catch wrestling backgrounds in UFC/Pride, yet.

Lots of great stuff here. Those Glima videos were very unique.

Question.

Is it possible to recreate a more realistic approach in two man set type training to work up from slow to fast and hitting alittle harder as the body is conditioned over time?

Agreed there is still the element of cooperation.

However timing, distance and speed will be improved and a little more realistic for real life self defense- No?

Who would you choose?

For the sake of an example lets use someon who might be in likely to have to use self defence as part of their work such as a VIP Body guard or the like..

Lets say you have to hire someone.

Your choices are:
The brawler-this person gets in bar fights at least twice a weak. They havelots of experience.

The 2 man set person- this guys been training for years in cooperative 2 man sets, real nasty stuff.

the sparring martial artist- this persons been sparring for years in competitive environments.

Who would you hire?

I can't afford to hire any of them.

I'm saving up for a Hummer.
Bob#2

Bob#2 could you please describe the qualities you would look for in training for realistic self defence?

Elliot,

Well, the two man set guy would be useless as a bodyguard, he has no practical experience in real fights, where the other guy fights back.

The brawler would be able to brawl, but would most likely not have any levels of response, he's be all or nothing.

I'd choose the sparring martial artist, at least he has practical experience, and he will probably have a range of techniques, so he would be most likely to apply appropriate force.

Thank you for sharing Elliot Fake. I am new to this board and noticed that its founder, Tim Cartmell, is an author and instructor of martial arts.

If any of Tim's students are on this board could you please share how Tim is as an instructor and even moreso as a human being with me. I am interested in possibly studying with Tim. I believe this is a fair question and an appropriate place to ask.