If I watched shen wu students competing would they be visible from other mma schools besides having a different logo on their shirts? Where do the internal arts come in in shen wu combatives?

Would shen wu students fall into the category of glorified kickboxers?

I'm not trying to flame and am just asking for clarification

definitely, the shen wu students are the ones that are winning

They are also more handsome.

What is a "glorified kickboxer?"

Do you mean a kickboxer also good at wrestling and grappling?

Or do you mean the term to be derogatory, as in people who are really good at kickboxing can't possibly be as good as people who practice real internal styles?

If the latter is the case, look up Vanderlei Silva (a glorified kickboxer) on Youtube. Then find some fight footage of a comparable fighter in whichever style you feel is superior to glorified kickboxing and report back to us.

"Glorfied kickboxer" is a term I believe made up by traditional martial artists to mean someone who studies a traditional art and ends up doing kick boxing when sparring or fighting. The term has also come to mean brute strength, frontal facing(lack of use of angles), darting in and out. Before people jump down my throat I do believe that an art has a bit of a look to it. "Ba gua" people have a similar, not completely, way of looking.


Perhaps I should have worded my post differently. Why call Shen Wu Shen Wu at all if it is a mixed martial art school? Why didn't you call it Tim's MMA Academy? Why are there specific pages here on the three internal martial arts if they're not the main course?

This is not about proving who has the bigger sack on youtube since I know you'd lose. Sorry, I thought it an appropriate time to throw in a joke to lighten the air. I meant glorified kickboxer in the derogatory way I described but wasn't using it as slander against Shen Wu academy. I'm just trying to figure out what the heck Shen Wu is or isn't.

My question still stands. Would I be able to recognize "Shen Wu" combatants/techniques if there was no Shen Wu label on their shirts?

"...someone who studies a traditional art and ends up doing kick boxing when sparring or fighting..."

This often happens when efficiency and survival are a priority.

Timber,

Your question is fairly common, usually asked by those without much actual fighting experience. No disrespect intended, but as Backarcher pointed out in the post above, fighting is fighting. It is difficult to explain how arts are principle based and how they fit together to someone without the experience to understand what I'm talking about. Once you go beyond the names of things and begin to understand the principles behind things, you'll find your question about how the IMA fit into what I teach is irrelevant.

In order to provide any more clarity, you'll need to provide examples of "traditional" martial artists actually fighting or at least competing effectively in venues with few rules (MMA) for example, who do not look like they are "kickboxing" when they are on their feet, or "wrestling" when they clinch and throw. I'll know then what you are referring to, and we can discuss from there.

If you start contact sparring or actually compete in realistic combat sports venues (or if you see a real fight) you'll find that although different fighters will have some variation in how they apply force, and there will be some variation in strategy, skilled fighters will fundamentally "look" more or less the same, they will look like they are fighting.

Well put!

Enough butt kissing, Jake! Wow.

That was an intersting response and I was hoping it wasn't the truth. When I contact spar it does look similar to what I study to an extent. And to another extent that I couldn't understand we all look similar in the way kickboxing looks. I thought eventually it would change but perhaps not.

I've seen real fights and they didn't look like sparring at all. In fact the fights were over rather quickly due to the person being hit a couple of times. My teacher has been mugged many times and often fought in school a lot. According to him, as someone who has fought life and death many times, the only fights that lasted a few minutes were those that included him against multiple opponents and when his opponents were under the influence of drugs.

Great replies all around. Thanks guys

I have a feeling i can pwn you and everyone at your glorified kickboxing gym, including your muggable teacher.

That's great, Robert. I think that's a bit inappropriate considering the topic. If you'd really like to roll around with me on the mat I think we can set that up. I'll bring the champagne and you bring that cute robe from last time.


Dude, did you percieve some sort of threat from my post? Well you shouldn't have so bite me

way to kiss your own ass robert!

My problem is when my BJJ looks more like kickboxing. I can't tell you how many times I've started doing a reverse punches to the air when I'm riding someone scarf hold.

I don't have to kiss anyone's ass junior! It was a well put explanation for someone who probably does not deserve one!

Perhaps you should cool your antics and just thank Tim, and leave it at that.

BTW what is your real name, and who is your teacher who is fighting life and death battles all the time?

Jake

Jake,

I am not engaging in any antics. This discussion board is very cool and I happen to own all of Tim Cartmell's books. I like what he's doing and was just wondering about the Shen Wu curriculum, trying to understand it better. My post may have sounded belligerent but it wasn't meant to be that way.

You are engaging in plenty of Tim Cartmell ass kissing. It's actually kind of sick how much teacher worship you probably have. People like you are good because you're loyal but dumb kind of like that big brute from the Godfather. He was Don Coleone's enforcer but the Don never met with him personally and he pretends to be going against Don Corleone and then gets strangled. Bruno something. Anyway, your internet antics remind me of him. It's commendable that you are so loyal to your teacher but give it a rest.

My name? You think because you put your glowing name up that it means anything? Your name means as much as the name of a termite. In the scheme of things it means nothing. You probably put your name up because: 1) You own a school and need people to join so it helps that people see that you're active. 2)Because deep down you have something to prove which is probably why you put your real name up.

God forbid someone else have a different opinion around here. Don't you get kind of sick of everyone repeating what Tim Cartmell is writing and saying? Those are his words and his opinions gleaned from his own experiences. Think for yourself and get your own words

This is not the flame room so can you and Robert take your macho bullshit somewhere else? Thanks

I use my name because I have balls, and they are not in my wife's purse. Little bitches do not use their name because they hide behind a facade of BS and are typical Monday morning quarterbacks so to speak.
I understand you are only 12 years old right now, but when your balls drop and you can step up you are always welcome to my school, or Shenwu's open mat for that matter to "see" what Shen Wu is all about.
Man up little boy!

If I was 12 you'd be in big trouble for talking to me about my balls and inviting me to strange places with mats. You might be on the next season of "To Catch A Predator.

You had to go all out with the Internet challenge. I hope that kind of behavior makes you feel really masculine. You might say that to the wrong person one day and get hurt so perhaps you should tone down your masculinity.

Let's see if you're man enough to not have the last word

No one challenged you. I invited you to come train. You would think an "adult" older than 12 could actually read wouldn't you??

"If you'd really like to roll around with me on the mat I think we can set that up. I'll bring the champagne and you bring that cute robe from last time."

and

"If I was 12 you'd be in big trouble for talking to me about my balls and inviting me to strange places with mats. You might be on the next season of 'To Catch A Predator.'"

I never really understand this kind of eroticising of the fighting arts..

""I never really understand this kind of eroticising of the fighting arts..""

You need to come roll with me; I will show you my variation on kami shiho gatame, and maybe we can have coffee afterwards.

We can all roll at the same time!

Gee, this thread really got off topic. I hope you're all happy. I forgive you all, even you Jake