I have met some really rooted people in push hands. Do you have any advice about getting past their stiffness and uprooting them? This couldbbe for a throw or a push. I practice stake standing but some of these guys seem immovable.

Generally they don't allow striking I wouldve done that already. Thanks

are they only doing fixed step? Or can you walk around?

Timber,

It would depend on what the parameters of the "push hands" are.

I'd need to know the rules of the game.

The rules are only pushing. We are allowed to walk around. No striking. Never seen them do a throw.

I've never practiced push hands where you were only allowed to push. But I know who's really the best at it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUs30BZFGLU

If you notice that your opponent keeps one leg well in front ot the other its very easy to block the outside of their front foot and push their face/neck/arm or chest in that direction causing them to gently fall (the stiffer they are the easier it is).

doing a standing posture where one of your feet is lifted and the hands are sort of pulling across your body is a good way to prepare for that one. It's basically a cross-sweep, but you can do it with out 'sweeping'.

I'll see if I can post an example when I return from my travels.

You should probably poke around for another school that knows how to 'use push-hands' because if folks aren't falling or struggling they aren't learning push-hands.

Shane

Thanks guys. I do notice that one person always has the Sam foot forward. Can't wait to try it.

Tim,

The pushing only kind is the only kind of push hands i've seen live people do. Those clips of Hawkins Cheung doing throws: I have never seen that live. My tai ji friend is fond of saying, "ifbi can push you I can hit you. There's no reason to throw or hit during push hands because a push illustrates both.". I don't agree with him.

Is it this "concept", Shane?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB49oFh6pK0

same concept yes, except you can do it at an arms length with very little body contact if the opponent is slightly stiff. But, yes, the opponent gets tied up and falls in the exact same manner. They need to step back but you block that step causing the fall.

(*I think I have to correct myself, in my earlier post I said you block their foward foot with your forward foot, but actually its your rear foot that blocks their forward foot. You block the foot and push their body in a way that they need to plant that foot to remain upright... since your stopping that foot they'll fall).

Timber,
This is a clip showing numerous push-hands trips and throws... I recommend you study it and pay close attention to how the thrower changes his angle of force to attack the throwie's dead angle (the angle where the oppenent has no force and has to take a step to right themselves).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUJ_VKiz6No&feature=channel_page

At exactly 8:30 (when the two fighters first squat low, the thrower uses the dynamic of the cross-sweep I mentioned... but effects the throw by driving in rather than blocking the foot and turning the opponent. If you imagine they are more upright and the thrower does the same push but blocks the oppoenents front foot (outside) the fall would be identical.

Study how the thrower pushes to the one angle where the throwie is the most vulnerable. It takes lots of practice to do this, and you can't learn it without falling sometimes and throwing your opponent sometimes. Some 'American Tai Chi' folks might look at this and say 'too much force' but that is only because the throwie is resisitng. The thrower really isn't using very much force once the throw is setup... the actual throw takes very little effort.

(everyone knows Tim can explain this better, right? I just happen to be bored to death in Roswell New Mexico at the moment. Frickin New Mexico)

"if I can push you I can hit you. There's no reason to throw or hit during push hands because a push illustrates both.". I don't agree with him.

I don't either.

Shane is doing a very good job of describing "crossing" type takedowns. The fundamental concept is to block outside the opponent's front foot while moving his mass to his rear dead angle. This can be done by pushing a place on his body on the far side of his centerline, or by pulling his rear arm across his body and down past his lead hip.

Shane, im disappointed. I thought you said i would see someone apply fajing and uproot someone into the bleachers!?

your thoughts are yours.

"Study how the thrower pushes to the one angle where the throwie is thrown into the bleachers."

did you not say this?