• Archive through January 21, 2001 January 21 - 09:41 pm [20]

Hi Parada
In general, if you see the boxer setting up his round kick, it is best to retreat back out of range if you can, let the kick pass and then move in to clinch or throw. If you cannot, try to move into the boxer (covering your head) at an angle toward his supporting leg side and knock him back or clinch and throw him as he throws the kick. Never stand still.

What is the price range for the Shen Wu classes? How is it similar/different to disciplines like shootfighting and wrestling?

The Shen Wu curriculum us based on the Chinese Internal styles (primarily Xing Yi Quan, Ba Gua Zhang and Tai Ji Quan) and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, in addition to related grappling arts. All of the body use, strategies and techniques are in line with the principles of the Internal styles (as I understand them). There are many similarities with shootfighting and wrestling, but techniques which require great strength are not generally included in the Shen Wu arts. Also, although we train and participate in combat sport competition, the focus of the Shen Wu classes is on non-sportive fighting.
If you would like more information, please call me at (714) 890-0605 or send me an e-mail at shenwu1@peoplepc.com
Tim

I've read through this whole discussion today and would like to add some thoughts and pose a question. Many years ago Don Angier, Yanagi Ryu, taught me away of looking at movement/techniques. He stated, "a block is a strike, a strike is a grab, a grab is a block." My insight, which at the time took awhile, is all three techniques come from the same movement, just the intent is different. Simple but upon contemplation quite profound.

If Shen Wu trains the student in the essential principals and mechanics of the "Internal" Chinese martial arts, what then is the relationship of this training to the forms, drills, and exercise practices of the traditional styles taught at the Academy?

Bruce,

You've got to word your question better. What exactly are you trying to ask?

BTW, I trained with Don Angier for several years before coming to train at Shen Wu.

I think one question he asking is why Tim has abandoned the forms in Shen Wu. Do they really matter? I understand he has formed two man forms in this class.

Tim:
Sorry I couldn't make Friday or Saturday. Overtime in San Diego. Keep the mat warm for me.

Bruce,
We do 'forms' in Shen Wu classes, not necessarily traditional linked sets. The exercises we do are 'forms' in the sense that the movements not only provide CV conditioning and strength training, they are also the movements that occur in actual technique. We don't do any exercises or drills for conditioning alone, all the exercises teach the students how to move the body in a coordinated unit.

I completely agree with Don's idea that a single movement has more than one application. This idea is one of the most basic principles of all the IMA.

Dennis,
Hope we will see you next week.

Meynard,

I'll try and expand on my question.

1. Does Shen Wu stand on its own as a IMA?
2. How is the training in Shen Wu integrated, expanded, enhance, or tailored in the traditional arts taught, lets say Hsing yi?
3. Example, Shen Wu trains whole body movement, yet each of the IMA's have a particular "flavor", so how is one related to the other, as in process?

Tim,

Is the a drop in visit okay?

Dennis;
Please send personal correspondence to Tim's E-mail address.

Thanks,

Bruce,

I will answer from my experience and understanding. I think Tim could give you a better answer to your question. It is his art after all.

1. Shen Wu stands on it's own as an IMA.
2/3. Training in Shen Wu gives you a taste of the different traditional arts that Tim teaches. Depending on your personality, physicality, and other natural tendencies you will begin to gravitate towards one or more of the traditional styles. The only real difference between Shen Wu and the traditional IMA is that in the traditional arts you get to learn the forms and other elements that define the art. You will learn the system of the art as it was taught traditionally. In Shen Wu you will learn how to fight first using IMA principles. I think the idea is that once you learn how to fight using IMA principles will give you a better perspective when you decide to take up the other traditional arts later. You will see the traditional IMA as combative art instead of some form of moving meditation.

When you start to spar in Shen Wu you will find that you like certain ways of doing things. There's a certain flavor to your movement and strategy. Shen Wu is a system that teaches you to fight using IMA principles and strategy as a foundation. How you manifest the principles and strategy in actual situations comes from learning the techniques of the different arts. You then internalize the flavors of these different principle based techniques and you begin to spar with certain flavors in mind. so as you internalize a certain flavor or way of doing things you find yourself gravitating towards one of the traditional arts.

Back to the sub-thread about Karate forms having
grappling/other applications, there is a book
called "Barefoot Zen" that discusses the Shaolin-based arts. He posits that pushhands was an essential practice in these arts, and describes some of the "other" applications to elements from traditional Karate kata. It's interesting to say the least.

Cheers.
David

Bruce,
You are welcome to come by any time. If you want more information on class times, call me at (714) 890-0605.