• Archive through April 12, 2002 April 12 - 06:30 pm [20]

• Archive through January 25, 2004 January 25 - 07:39 pm [20]

Yes, but it is a very fast circle at least.

I have always followed the train both sides equally school with empty hands, or knife, stick etc. With handguns I usually spend 25 to 33% of my training with the 'weak' hand only.

Some of those in the know, say that in gunfights the natural tendency is to keep the gun in the dominent hand even if it is injured, unless it becomes totally useless.

While both sides should be trained, it seems that under stress the dominent hand becomes 'more dominent' that usual.

can anyone tell me the point of Ba Gua circle walking? i cant understand it, i dont see any point, u get dizzy, and the stances offer no great attacking or defensive opourtunities (just from what ive seen) please answer i am very interested in Ba Gua and would love for someone to explain this to me...

You need to find a teacher if you're that interested in ba gua then ask him.

The point is to teach yourself to move around your opponent's line of force (which is represented by the center of the circle). So, you're not learning to walk around an opponent- but rather, to move around his line of force.

I've only studied Sun Style Ba Gua- and attended some siminars on Gao Style- both have powerful attacks & defensive opportunies. Every movement of every form is a template for an application
(just like Tai Ji Chuan).

When you see someone who is good demonstrate it (or use it in sparing) it makes quite a bit of sense.

from little clips i've seen,ba gua seem to have
lot of takedown type moves.
anybody knows a good video that shows lots
of martial applications and takedowns.

Thank you for answering my question, i somewhat understand what you mean, but im still confused about this part...

By Shane
"The point is to teach yourself to move around your opponent's line of force (which is represented by the center of the circle). So, you're not learning to walk around an opponent- but rather, to move around his line of force."

what do you mean by "line of force"?

also can you tell me any good websites to see decent examples of circle walking, like videos or something?

Thank you again for answering my question

line of force meaning the direction force is applied at you, from your opponent.

If I push your chest- my line of force is straight in at you. If I try to get you in a headlock, my line of force is applied to your head/neck and one side of your body.

All martial arts teach counters to techniques- Circle walking, in part, was designed to help the practicioner fluidly move 'around' the opponent's applied force.

Shenwu.com's 'virtual academy' has some great sparring clips where folks use Ba Gua methods & throws. I've recently seen a great clip of Mifune (god of judo) demonstration the same priciple using a basket ball. But I haven't found any impressive clips of cirle walking.

I'll try to remember to post some links tonight (I'm at work now.... gotta go).

Hi,

If you have a link to the video clip of Mifune, I would love to see it!

Thanks,
Josh

I found this link on EmptyFlower.com (video section).

http://www.vsocial.com/video/?d=428

Mifune is amazing. The demo with the basketball is close to the end of the clip. (before some goofball starts ranting; I'm not saying Mifune is demonstrating Ba Gua, he demonstrates the reason & concept of moving around the opponent's force).


Vsocial seems like a cool site.

Shane

Cool! Thanks , Shane.

I think they recently added a bunch of Mifune clips over at Judoinfo.com , if you are interested. Good stuff!

that clip was awesome.

the technique looks alot like mine... haha yeah right.

imho, circle walking develops a strong mobile root, and the single palm change gives you opportunity to redirect oncoming force and use it against the opponent. it also trains the will, and intent to act spontaneously while under attack. it also trains your body to be light and mobile, yet heavy and powerful.

cryptic enough? get used to it. the study of cma is just a long road of cryptic teachings, and the decoder key is your body and mind.

hey you guys check this out...

http://www.jmurray3.us/newsite/wutang/video/bagua_adamhsu.mov

its a movie about circle walking (of course) and i think it also shows the single palm change... i dont know if you guys have seen this but im posting it just in case some have not

Hi guys,

What is the route purpose of Circle walking? What do you get from it that other training methods don't give you.

You can get root, applications etc. from other methods so why did a clever person develop circle walking?

My opinion is that it develops the twisting of the body and thats why you revolve around a central point.

Paul

Paul: route distance is 3.14159265 times the diameter of the circle. The route purpose is somewhat circumtuitous

Robert: You should write something, maybe along the lines of the art of war or something. You've made it clear that you have a lot to share.

um hey bro (Jason M. struck)... i didnt really get this

Paul: route distance is 3.14159265 times the diameter of the circle. The route purpose is somewhat circumtuitous

It sounds more like your stating the obvious formula for the circumferance of a circle (pi*d=c)... can u explain what you meant? was their anything deeper that you said in there or am i just thinking too deeply???

you got me bobster

To the guy who got dizzy when you circle walk,
try not to look down, look at eye level only,
back straight, head pressing up, relax.

um... is there a certain set path your feet need to take when circle walking?

i found this site that showed a specific path

http://trinity.psnw.com/~dlmurray/images/circlewalk.gif

(Right foot blue, left foot red)

also can anyone show me some specific BaGua techniques while circle walking?

thank u 4 ur time

I think the path your foot takes is lineage specific

the site you showed looks very strange, as the left foot is doing too much turning to be correct.

you are supposed to take 8 steps to complete the circle for a beginner and the footing just follows the contours of the circle

can't show anything specific via email I'm afraid

The exact size of the circle you walk is less important than how precisely you step and how you transfer the weight of the body and connect the spine to your feet and hands.

Some methods can bring great leg strength but can also ruin the leg joints unless you are supervised enough in your own training to do the method precisely; conversely, some styles use more speed in the walking and higher stances which often means that the students "float" more than they realize.

Having a strong root and movement that comes from the spine and the ground -- at any pace -- is no easy task.

ive seen that animation before, that guy sort of mutated the steps a little bit into a more "silat" style stepping, since silat uses the triangle for footwork practice rather than the circle, but in a very similar fashion. That would explain why the left foot is turning in so much; there should be a triangle there. But the footwork for the single palm change looks okay, although the animation changes direction twice in a row, i dont know what that is. maybe someone else does.

as for the set path, ive read many times that while walking around your reference circle, lets say, counterclockwise; the left foot commences the movement, and as you are walking along the circle, one foot(left) stays inside of the circle. and the other foot stays on the outside, the thing is not to walk directly on the line since this causes the body to be off balance.

study and pay close attention to tims concept of tru balance, in my opinion, balance is one of the most important concepts to understand

joint deterioration and adverse effects come from improper balance and alignment of the structure. When the structure is properly balanced and aligned, the body will absorb shock in a manner which evenly distributes stress along the body as a whole, i.e. laying on a bed of spikes is possible if one can evenly distribute ones weight along the nails.
on the opposite hand, improper balance can cause wear and tear in the isolated acting joints and muscles, i.e. if your horse stance is at all leaning forward, you are causing wear and tear to the tops of your knees, and possibly the neck and upper back. Although, if your weight is balanced, the body is strengthened as a whole.

Anyone seriously interested in the benefits of circle turning should buy the Pakua Journel CD and read the great article written by Dan Miller.

Beyond that, no amount of talking or reading can replace doing. Walk the circle every day for a year and you'll start to get a hint of the benefits. You absolutely will not regret the time spent!! I have been taught that circle turning is both the most basic practise and also the most advanced. After 3 years of turning, I'm starting to see a glimmer of the truth in that statement.