Archive through June 08, 2003

Tim's Discussion Board: Ba Gua Zhang : Stop having sex: Archive through June 08, 2003
   By AJ (Unregistered Guest) on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 02:59 am: Edit Post

here is an excert from the interview with Mr.Ma Chuanxu at

JS: As far as I know Taoists suggest that one should also stop having sex, otherwise the Small and Large Heavenly Circles will never open. Is that true for Bagua Neigong practice as well?

MR.MA: Yes, this is very important condition. My teacher told me that at the very beginning - if you want to develop true skill, you must be like a monk, living in celibacy. There is a story about "Coal" Ma, who was selling coal in Beijing's Caishikou. When he started to study Baguazhang from Dong Haichuan, he took his quilt and moved out to live in the shop. He lived there for three years and did not return home even once during that time.

Your body requires one week to recover after one sexual intercourse. i.e. come back to the condition before the intercourse. One hundred days is required to recover Original Qi (Yuan Qi) completely (i.e. recover to the condition before one had any sex). About three years is required to open Small Heavenly Circle.

JS: What if one decides to practice in Lower Basin without fulfilling that requirement?

MR.MA: You will only hurt yourself. Lower Basin is a very demanding practice for the body and it will not be able to endure it. During Lower Basin practice you have to eat well and have good rest. It is like having a bank account. If you draw 1 million dollars from it and then transfer 1 million back it is OK. If you transfer 1 million and one dollar, you will have little saving - surplus energy. However if you transfer only 990 thousand, you will be in dept - your body will not be able to recover from the effort. In this way although your muscles may get stronger, your internal strength, internal potential, will decrease. This phenomena can be easily recognized by hearing one's voice - weak voice, neither loud nor clear, sometimes accompanied by coughing is the symptom of low energy level. Lower Basin method is most suitable for young, unmarried people. Otherwise you have to make the decision to become like a monk for three years.

   By Kenneth Sohl on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 09:06 pm: Edit Post

Obviously, the man is hopelessly insane.

   By Mark Hatfield (Unregistered Guest) on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 11:04 pm: Edit Post

You've got to remember that training theory was mixed in with religion, philosophy, folk medicine, superstition and all kinds of things. Folks knew that if they did such and such exercises, they eventually got such and such results, but it's clear they didn't necessarily know why they got those results.

Parts of some exercises can be superfluous, others critical, but the practicioner didn't necessarily know which was which.

Add in something like 'Chi' (a sensation created by the nervous system) to powerfull movements which don't feel powerful to the skilled practioner and may appear almost magical to the untrained observer.

Wether described by the Chinese, Greeks, or Yogis of India the 'Chi' sensation fit in well with the internal arts as the state of body and mind needed to feel it is consistant with the same for best movement in these arts.

Tying the arts with meditations or simply with devoted practice, there can be awareness of body sensations not normally noticed. Put this together with the theories of folk medicine of several hundred years ago and you get people interpeting the sensations as 'sperm changing into chi, which is then compressed into the bones' etc.,etc.

On a completly diferent note, some of the older coaches in this country that forbade sex admitted that it wasn't the actual sex that was the problem, it was the drinking and staying up late that went along with it.

Diferent cultures, diferent situations.

   By Mingmen on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 11:59 pm: Edit Post

Totally disagree. CMA training follows Oriental Medicine Theory. The "jing" relationship is unavoidable. The point is some people are born with more and can spend more of it without deleterious effects. Others get exhausted more easily.
Most people won't feel the effects until they are older anyway.
By the way, under using your 'seed' is also not recommended, according to TCM.

   By Kenneth Sohl on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 08:55 am: Edit Post

But how do you know if you are "underusing" or "overusing" your seed??

   By Mark Hatfield (Unregistered Guest) on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 11:30 am: Edit Post

Kenneth, I've seen a couple diferent time schedules. One was only three times a year, the other was for a specified number of days depending upon your age. The time between ejaculations was to increase with age. Note, that you were allowed all the coitus you wanted, just don't ejaculate.

   By Kenneth Sohl on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 12:17 pm: Edit Post

Well, the 3 times a year schedule is obviously misinformation put out to protect the true secrets. No doubt the time between orgasms may even span as long as 2 or 3 days when in ones late 60s-early 70s. Coitus sans ejaculation, eh? Hmmmmm.....

   By Erhum (Unregistered Guest) on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 12:48 pm: Edit Post

3 times a year is a lot less sex for some, but from reading their posts, a lot more for others.


   By Michael Andre Babin on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 02:59 pm: Edit Post

There is much weirdness in sexual matters in all cultures and I have met more than one taiji teacher (sometimes Chinese, more often not) who wraps his classes in pseudo-taoism as a way to get young sexual partners. As there are always women who are attracted to authority figures for a variety of reasons; unscrupulous teachers frequently have no trouble "getting laid" this way.

When I think of some of the activities that I have heard of in taoist monasteries from reputable sources; I think it is also likely that some of the theories were based more on the monks coming up with great excuses for being sexually active despite their lofty theological and philosophical leanings. To be fair though, there is certainly a legitimate aspect to the theories behind taoist sexual acitivity from a traditional aspect but ... caveat emptor (translation, "let the horny beware!)

I also think that the old Chinese approach to male ejaculation may more usually have had something to do with elderly rich men trying to satisfy the needs of a household with several wives, concubines and attractive female maids!

In medical terms, using any method to stop ejaculation is more likely to simply cause
"retrograde emission" in which the sperm is released but forced backwards into the bladder instead of being ejected immeditately in the normal manner. So someone who actually tries to use one of the recommended "taoist" practices for preventing ejaculation; is liable to only end up thinking he hasn't ejaculated as he is still "losing qi" when he urinates after having engaged in retrograde emission.

Speaking of retaining your "vital fluids"; I must be very highly evolved in energy terms as I don't get much sexual activity these days -- eighteen years of marriage can do that to you!

   By Kenneth Sohl on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 05:34 pm: Edit Post

Well of course! Your sex life ended the day of the funera-er, wedding! Actually, it should be plain that married men get laid a lot more for obvious reasons. Interesting about the repressed emissions. I don't feel so guilty about being so undisciplined in such matters any more.

   By rumbrae (Unregistered Guest) on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 10:53 pm: Edit Post

Those more interested in qigong and use it for example in healing notice or detect a difference before and after sex. Some have a high level of sensitivity while others don't, that sensitivity can be learned. People with health challenges such as a bad knee for example will feel the difference before and after sex.

   By pebbleonthewater (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 10:41 am: Edit Post

The omission of emissions will never be my mission. I think that is a mission impossible!

   By Dragonprawn on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 11:01 am: Edit Post

The "three times a year" idea may have been put forth to curtail overpopulation!

   By SysOp on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 02:45 am: Edit Post

   By Kenneth Sohl on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 09:35 am: Edit Post

Sysop, quit worrying about overpopulation!

   By Josh (Unregistered Guest) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 06:50 pm: Edit Post

Hi, in regards to sex; it seems that alot of people say alot of different things. Some say no sex, some say do it with a method in mind; some say just do it. The way that I see it ( and I am only twenty three, so my concept of sex and energy stuff may differ from someone with a less prominent sex drive) is that it depends on how you think about it and how you do it. If you think that you are going to die every time you get laid, then maybe you are playing more of a part in that than the sex itself. I don't know. I have found that in my limited experience, some sexual methods seem to have a pretty profound effect in terms of keeping what you got or even adding to it. Maybe my recovery time has something to do with this as, again, I am a young-un. Well, gotta split. Josh

   By Michael Marotta on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 07:41 pm: Edit Post

A while back I read this article saying that new studies have shown that sex does not have the adverse effects on physical performance like popularily believed. It went on to say that it actually had some positive effects like increased levels of hormones like testosterone which boosted physical performance. The article did not mention if the scientists measured higher levels of chi. :-) I tried to find this article again online but when I tried the search engine I just got pages and pages of sex and testosterone enhancing ads. I'll definitely post the link if I can find it again.

   By punching-bag (Unregistered Guest) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:56 pm: Edit Post

The highest internal skills cannot be achieved unless you go sex free for at least 3 to 4 years,and after that no orgasm comes close to the feeling the arts can give you when practiced properly.women dont win your fights you do.and if tou already have a family,well your screwed can build power,but not very high.

   By Shane on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 07:23 pm: Edit Post

It's clear to me whomever told you that line of crap realized the importance of you not contaminating the rest of the gene pool.

   By Mingmen on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 02:24 am: Edit Post

Unkind but perhaps brought on by oneself! Zing!