Nine Dragon Baguazhang

Tim's Discussion Board: Ba Gua Zhang : Nine Dragon Baguazhang
   By Pete Frampton (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 06:01 pm: Edit Post

Has anyone here ever heard of 9 Dragon Baguazhang? Any thoughts on it's authenticity and effectiveness?

   By KStevens (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 04:46 pm: Edit Post

Pete, the official website for Nine Dragon Baguazhang is

   By Bruce Leroy (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 06:12 pm: Edit Post

9 Dragon Baguazhang is as authentic as the Jedi Knights fighting method.

At least the Jedi had cool light sabers and a gnarly old fighter like Yoda instead of some fake American Ranger.


   By EHughes (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 06:45 pm: Edit Post

Everyone always talks about how Painter's Bagua isn't real all because of his lineage. Let's cut through the chase...Why don't you challenge Dr. Painter and see if his Bagua is really authentic! Let's see how good your Hsing-I really is Bruce Leroy. You talk big s$@! on the message board. Put your money where your mouth is! Challenge him, tough guy! People are always talking but not doing anything...typical! You should spend more time training instead of opening your mouth. As the Chinese would say, "Chi resides in the breath", so stop gabbing and do something!

   By Bob #2 on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 07:15 pm: Edit Post

if Chi resides in the breath then gabbing would be a necessary method of avoiding chi-blockage.

You should study what you study.

   By Bruce Leroy (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 07:31 pm: Edit Post

What lineage? Oh you mean the fake one that he made up? I wouldn't call that a lineage. A lineage means that his ba gua had to have some kind direct descendancy from another ba gua practioner who practice some 9 dragon bagua. Since he made it all up there is no lineage.

If there's no lineage how could it be authentic? There's no need to challege Biff. Through logical conclusion he already lost. It's proven that his so called ba gua is not authentic.

If I could beat Biff and his minions with my two finger typing method what do you think I could with both hands? It would be a slaugther.

By the way. I like Yoda.

   By EHughes (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 11:19 pm: Edit Post

Like I said Bruce, challenge Dr. Painter! Forget about the lineage and put your Hsing-I against his so-called made up Bagua. What have you to lose? After all, his Bagua is fake and your Hsing-I is not, right? You should have no problem then. But, if you won't challenge him then stop slandering the man. If his 'fake' bagua works for him then so be it! The end result of an art is all that matters. In a real street fight, no one is asking for the lineage of your art anyways. Stop living in the past and live in the now!

   By Bruce Leroy (Unregistered Guest) on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 02:25 am: Edit Post

So you agree that his lineage and bagua is fake. I rest my case. A charlatan is not worth my time.

BTW Painter should speak for himself and not have a suck up like you make challenges for him.

   By Bob Jr. (Unregistered Guest) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 07:00 am: Edit Post

So sad a Western guy had made up BS for my Chinese culture. That man, Painter, has no moral.I am in Dallas. Hopefully I won't smell him from Arlington.

   By GoodOnYou (Unregistered Guest) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 05:13 pm: Edit Post

come to an open training session tomorrow, saturday 26th. from 9 a.m. to 10 p.m there will be 3 instructors there. then come back and tell everyone about your experience - good or bad.

p.s. a while back, a student of of John Painter visited the shen wu acadamy - why don't you ask the shen wu people about that experience.

   By GoodOnYou (Unregistered Guest) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 05:24 pm: Edit Post

"that should be until 10:00 A.M. pardon the misstype, we will be happy to talk with you on all aspects of the martial art taught and what ever else you'd like to know

   By sleepydragon (Unregistered Guest) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 10:48 pm: Edit Post

I have a question in re to John Painter and Erle M.

I just watched a clip on Painters website of him circle walking etc. It looked pretty good. Why are people saying he is fake?

Erle M.
I just recently visited his website and looked at the photos listed of his old yang style that everyone is bashing... it is very very close to Chen Pan Ling(which I learned the hand form) and everyone says he made it up etc. His form is too close to original Chen Pan Ling to be made up, and alot of people say that Chen Pan Ling form mostly retains old yang style, although Chen and Wu styles are present.

I don't know the legitimacy of these individuals, but it appears they have learned these styles from someone and learned them well. Why would they lie as to who taught them?

Does anyone have any information on the above?

   By Shane on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 10:55 pm: Edit Post


who was the Painter student who visited? And when?


   By Bob Jr. (Unregistered Guest) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 03:04 am: Edit Post

it still smells. hopefully the EPA instead US Wushu KF Fed. will sanction Painter due to his pollution to martial arts environment no matter his skill is good or bad.

   By Edward Hines on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 01:00 pm: Edit Post


Because something resembles something else does that make it legitimate?

The reason most people lie as to who taught them is because they made up what they are teaching themselves.

Some of Erle's other claims are that he was taught the '9 ki disrupting katas' by an old man somewhere on wudangshan, and that these are the original basis of yang Taiji, and that they also form the basis of Xingyi and Bagua.

I believe Micheal Andre Babin, a long time Erle student and regular poster here has doubts about the origins of Erle's stuff, though he also says he can be a great teacher and that he doesn't really mind.

Whether you mind or not is a personal matter. Personally I do.


   By Michael Andre Babin on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 06:40 pm: Edit Post

Erle is an excellent teacher and unlike many of the internal arts experts that I have met over the years he can demonstrate fighting skills that might well work on the street. I don't agree with all his claims and marketing strategies but I don't have any doubt about his martial abilities.

As to my not caring about honesty... it's one of the few things that I do well in terms of my own teaching.

   By Bob Jr. (Unregistered Guest) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 04:23 am: Edit Post

Hi Edward,

I agree with you that you personally matter the legitimacy. We Chinese had made lots of superstitious BS ourself in past generations due of public's lack of education, especially in the field of martial arts. It's sad that the American practioners are copying this bad tradition for the sake of business & personal recognition like Painter & Erle both do. Nowadays only people below average IQ will believe in & follow their false lineage.It's not only the skill & lineage that really matter, it's also the way that we show our repect to our ancestors & teachers. Since those people do not respect their teachers, how can they even recognize who their fathers are? Right?

   By Walter Joyce (Unregistered Guest) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 06:42 am: Edit Post

For the record, Erle is an Austrailian.

   By Michael Andre Babin on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 11:06 am: Edit Post

Second or third-hand information is often inaccurate and, to quote a previous post, "only people below average IQ" will rely on it.

   By Bob #2 on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 01:01 pm: Edit Post

Just because he calls people 'mate' does not make Erle Australian.

   By nobody (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 06:10 pm: Edit Post

>who was the Painter student who visited? And when?<

that would be interesting to know. and what was the impression he left?

   By Tim on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 03:40 am: Edit Post

For the record, no one who studies with John Painter has ever visited the Shen Wu Academy, though everyone is welcome.

We did invite one of his instructors to fight in my MMA tournament last year, but he declined. We understand competition is not for everyone.

On that note, the third annual Shen Wu tournament is scheduled for the end of September. Anyone interested in fighting please send me an e mail with your stats (weight, martial arts background and previous competitive experience).

   By Randall Sexton on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 10:06 am: Edit Post

Will there be rules!

   By SysOp on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 01:44 pm: Edit Post

This has turned into a Painter thread. There is already a thread or two on him under the Martial Artist - Miscellaneous.

This thread is now closed