Yin Fu Ba Gua

Tim's Discussion Board: Ba Gua Zhang : Yin Fu Ba Gua

   By Ken Lew on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 10:39 am: Edit Post

Hi Calibus:

Sifu Jason Tsou currently teaches in Monterey Park, California. For more info on Sifu Tsou go to his website: http://www.chikungintl.com/.

Regarding your questions on light Kung Fu, Sifu Tsou knows of three people who are very good at it: They are: Grandmaster Liu, Master Su yu-Chang (www.pachitanglangchuan.com) and Jackie Chen. Dong Hai-Chuan and Kung Bao-Tien were very famous in this Kung Fu according to Grandmaster Liu.

Sifu Tsou himself studied and trained this type of Kung Fu under Master Yang Bao-Jen when he was 12 years old. Howvever, he did not continue in the training as another master, Chang Wu-Cheng
told him that only a kid starting this training under 7 years old would be able to
reach the high level; twelve years old was considered too old!! For any questions on Light Kung Fu , the best person to ask would be Master Su.

As far as Grandmaster Liu's leg being swollen, Sifu Tsou didnt know anything about it, all he knew he was on the
wheelchair the last year before he passed away. He had kidney failure,which caused some other medical complexions.


   By CaIibus on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 01:04 pm: Edit Post

Bob Ken,

Thank you.

Bob the Yahoo group link is great... thanks, I haven't finished exploring any of the sites you gave me. That should keep me busy for a while.

Ken thanks for the info on sifu Tsou but I was more asking Jeff because Sifu Tsou has a link to Jeff's site at www.chikungintl.com. Isn't Jackie Chan more of a "show kung fu person"? 7 is really where I should have started? Couldn't I just train harder to make up for my 7 lost years? I would like to learn it from master su but, wouldn't he be hard to get hold of? Anyway I will try and thank you.

   By Ken Lew on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 01:21 pm: Edit Post

Hi Calibus:

I do not know Master Su's schedule, but I understand his school is in New York and he travels a lot. The requirements of the training you need to discuss with him. As for starting at age 7, I will ask Sifu Tsou what is the reason for it. Regarding Jackie Chan, I believe Sifu was commenting on the early training Jackie received before he went Hollywood. I understand it was quite harsh and demanding so the stunts he does probably draws upon this base.


   By jeff k on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 01:28 pm: Edit Post

The info Ken gave is excellent. In fact, (Hi Ken) Ken is also a classmate of mine with Jason Tsou. I am currently having some problems with my access to the internet, so my e-mail and replies are somewhat delayed. Just FYI, I am the web master for Jasons site (soon to have some major updates) and my personal site, kabooom, has not been updated in a long time. Use this link for Master Su. "http://www2.micro-net.com/~ycsu/mastersu.html" You can learn from him if you are in New York. Hope you have good language skills. It's true Jackie Chan is a performer and is generally to active to stay in one place long enough to learn a real kung fu style. At least that is the way Jason describes him. Although, when they have gotten together, I have heard he is very excited to learn some real martial arts. I am sure he has gotten help from 100's of martial artists along the way. Anyway, great post Ken. Why don't you post on our board???

   By Ken Lew on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 05:19 pm: Edit Post

Hi Calibus:

Here is the response from Sifu Tsou regarding more on light KF and why one should begin at 7 years old. Enjoy. Ken.

"Comments from Sifu Tsou:

More and more people are interested in various Kung Fu topics and want to
obtain the authetic information. It is a great news for traditional Chinese
martial arts. As a traditional Chinese MA practioner,I feel that it my
mission to share some authentic information with them.

I have never seen Grandmaster Liu demostrating his light KF but Master Su
and some of the grandmaster's neighbors have. I eyewitnessed Master Su and
Jackie Chen's light Kung Fu long time ago. They both have one thing in
common: their light KF is in a very high-level but the skill they own is not
mystical and can be achieved by another human being throught the hard and
correct training.

To my knowledge, the most common misconceptions about light KF are 1) If you
reach high level you will be able to jump vertically to a very high point
(say a two-story high building or 15'). I call it "KF fantasy" or "Hong Kong
KF movie Style". 2) No way you can hop over a wall 8' or more. I call it
"partially scientific". I saw Master Su hop over a wall (about 10' hight
at least) at a Confucius' temple in Taipei when I was 21 years old (Master Su
was 31 at that time). The entire process I call it "fantasy like but very
scientific". Master Su literally used his feet bouncing up from ground to
the mid-height of the wall then bounced again from that point to the top of
the wall then jump over to the other side. The whole time he did not use his
hands to help at all. If you remember some of the Jackie Chen's movie, he
was bouncing from one object (a tree or a wall) to another object (usually
at a higher point such as roof or a platform), and sometime he even did some
consecutive bounces!!

I have never been sure about why Master Chang Wu-Cheng considered 7 years old
as age upper limit for light KF. But I do believe when you start Kung fu at
younger age(reasonably young, your body and mind has to be mature enough for
the training). Just like younger age people can easily learn a new language, a
younger body can also learn and memorize the mechanism of the movements
easier. If you started at a later age, you still can learn these skills except
you don't have enough "memory chips" for you to handle higher requirements,
and consequently to reach a higher Kung Fu level.


   By jeff k on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 05:56 pm: Edit Post

Man that's some good $hit. And you wonder why I have hung around this guy for the past 20 years. No BS, just pure honesty. Thanks for sharing that Ken.

   By Shane on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 08:13 pm: Edit Post


Just for fun, please post that same quote on the
Kungfuonline.com internal arts forum... you'll be amazed at how many Chi-Huggers will attack and claim that your quote must have been fabricated.

It's like a wacky sitcom over there.

   By jeff k on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 09:00 pm: Edit Post

Hey, I resemble that remark!:) Actually I wanted to suggest Ken have a look over there.

   By Walter T. Joyce Sr. on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 09:43 am: Edit Post

Although some my have implied I am a "chi hugger" (I wonder, does that imply one embraces the concept of chi, or is it a derivative insult based on the tree hugger appellation given to extreme environmentalists?) I agree totally with the quote below.
" the skill they own is not mystical and can be achieved by another human being throught the hard and correct training."

   By Coldheat on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 11:04 am: Edit Post

If the chi fits, hug it! An old cliche that I just made up. :)

   By Shane on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 12:37 pm: Edit Post

Chi Hugger is indeed is used for the chi extremists. Those who belive by doing Chi-gung and Tai ji forms believing that they are developing some mystical pool of an invisible substance which they can one day fire out of their hands into some one, or some thing.

I invented the term. And that is part of it's definition.

(Personally, I am a borderline tree-hugger.
I place the value of nature and life above the value of the dollar or someone humans comfort level. But I'm not an extremist. I also believe in plenty of paranormal and mystical stuff... but I am not a chi-hugger).

   By CoolHandLuke on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:05 pm: Edit Post

jeff k,

I took a look at the provided link.What caught my eye was this thread:

"Gaining weight and internal martial arts "

Holy Cow,apparently none of these posters have trained with the " husky one " just north of SF?

I have to go now - I am surgically implanting a camera in myself so I can track internal body changes as I practice- you know, to help me teach from the "inside out".

   By Mike/Caiibus on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:50 pm: Edit Post

Cool Hand Luke,

You're joking, correct?

Hmmmm Chi-Huggers... I like it, and Yes I too resemble that remark.

I remember hearing stories of Grand Master Liu saying " The only thing I have ever done that is good for myself is Kung Fu". I was thinking maybe he didn't get the proper nutrition so he filled up with fluids from the intense training.

I was wondering how I would achieve the chi feeling. Do I really have to empty my mind for the first time I do it? Or do I just have to do the chi gung practice a few hundred billion times and it will come naturally? Once I have that could I possibly minipulate the chi to aid my movements(Punch, kick, swim, run faster, Jump higher and so on)?

Hmmm Go as detailed as you want.

and I'll go by my real name this time.

   By jeff k on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 04:05 pm: Edit Post

Cool Hand Luke, I'm surprised the one that caught your eye wasn't What is Yin Fu Bagua, judging from where you found the link. I haven't looked at the thread you mentioned since I haven't gained an ounce since high school over (oh my god) 30 years ago.

At this point I'm not sure if you are joking. Perhaps you would like to start another thread about chi or check on many of the existing ones. I'll only comment that you could practice only chi kung "a few hundred billion times" and if your body isn't already opened by other training, movements like "punch, kick, swim, run faster, jump higher..." would not be improved.

BTW, I am obviously not what you would call a "chi hugger" by the above defination. I believe through correct practice all else will fall into place. I only said "I resemble that remark" because I am a long time contributor at KFO. There are many chi huggers there, but there are also some realistic martial artists as well.

   By Bagua Bill on Saturday, May 18, 2002 - 03:36 pm: Edit Post

I have personally experienced this ki/chi/qi
emination from another person.It felt as though
he was rubbing his hand across my body from
several feet away.you don't need to believe this
for it to still be true.I am still in doubt till
I see or feel for myself.That time was more than enough proof for me.No sparks,no fire just plain
old simple touching from an distance of at least
10-15 ft. The internal style was Hapkido.

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