I have read several articles on Ba-gua training that say it is important to maintain contact between the tongue & the roof of the mouth during practice.It states that this is for completing the chi circuit.Just wondering if this is sound advice. Can somebody shed some light on the subject? At this point in my training I really dont understand the chi concept.

Gwheel,

If you're relaxed right now your tongue is probably resting naturally and is touching the roof of your mouth slightly (assuming you're not prone to leaving your mouth gaping open). This 'relaxed' and 'natural' state of the tongue keeps the ol' salivary glands happy- and helps keep your mouth from drying out. You may want to 'notice' your tongue from time to time (in case you are a mouth-gaper and don't know it) but don't force your tongue into some unnatural position for the sake of an article. Just keep your mouth throat and tongue relaxed.

In some sense I guess that could be considered 'completing the chi circuit' since without it you could have excellent posture, balance and perfect structural alignment but find yourself dying for a glass of water to quench your cotton mouth.

I don't know much Chinese.. but I've studied with some great teachers who are fluent- they, and other folks I know who are Chinese, all say that Chi simply means 'energy'. Not some mystical, magical, implode hamsters at a distance energy.... just plain old 'energy'. When you wake up some days and you're giddy and energetic... you might say "I have good Chi today". If you walk outside and the sky is beautiful the air is crisp and things just seem to be all good... you might say 'today has Chi'. If the most gorgeous woman you've ever seen walks up, hands you her number and says she needs you to take care of her urges
you might think "CHECK OUT THE BIG CHI ON ME" (but I wouldn't recommend saying that out loud).

When you develop your Ba Gua so that you have great posture, balance, body alignment and no cottonmouth you will perform your Ba Gua with
great relaxed and natural energy (a.k.a. Chi).

Don't get too hung up on Chi and certainly don't
get too infatuated with teachers who try to lead you to believe it is anything super natural or mystical. Developing Chi is all about training your body to maximize its natural power. Once you
have that down... you can grow to be a teeny old man who knows how to use his scrawny little body to off balance and (seemingly) magically throw opponents.


I'm sure Tim will have a better way of explaining the concept. I hope my two bits helps.

Gwheel,
I do not practice Ba-Gua but this practice is also done in Wing Chun. I was told the same thing, it completes the circuit between the front trunk and back trunk meridians. Although I do not believe in Chi, the placing of the tongue on the upper-palette causes the mouth to water. This in turn wets the throat when the saliva is swallowed. From a practical standpoint it also keeps the tongue in a position safe from being bit during a fight.

Gwheel,

Go over to 'Topics'... 'Ba Gua'...
'Limits of Ba Gua' and read the whole thread.
Tim posted an answer to a Chi question previously.

Hi there...
i just wanted to post my opinion on chi and it's "magical" processes. I certainly believe chi is real and does exist(i have felt it myself)...but i don't think it is magical, as some would put it. It is simply a function of the living body that can be developed and manipulated.To some it might seem to have mystical properties, but i don't believe that it is simply a symbol or a concept. Acupuncurists, healers, and massagers all know this. Just my opinion, however.
sincerely:
walker

A wild guess, you don't speak much Chinese do you, Walker?

Walker -

You need to go to John Painter's site for this gibberish. Here is somebody you can talk to.
http://www.egroups.com/message/BaGuaZhang/245

From: Gregory Santidhamma <fung_goo@h...>
Date: Fri Oct 13, 2000 1:04am
Subject: Breathing through the feet


I am wondering if it is better to inhale through the soles of my feet and
then exhale the qi up my spine; or is it better to push the qi into the
ground and retreave it with the front step when walking the circle? Can any
of you give me a clue about this?

I like the feeling when I push the qi into the ground because it curves down
into the ground and then up again so that the front foot absorbs it and I
don't feel like I have lost any energy. But I also like the feeling of the
qi going up my spine. By inhaling through the soles of my feet, the qi seems
to gather from the front before ascending the spine. This is wonderful since
it makes rising up so easy. But by sinking my qi into the earth, I find that
rising up onto the front foot is equally easy. Which technique is better?
Should I try to combine the two methods? Can any of you give me a hint about
this?

Gregory

Oh my! I feel as though I just stepped into the twilight zone. I don't like the feeling. Suddenly all my energy is being sucked away by some looney tune! AAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHH!

I love chi. It's great on toast, in sandwiches, or just plain as a lovely no-carb treat. Just don't understand the appeal of the Swiss stuff, though.

John,
Are you saying you don't like Swiss Chi's? Bob's Big Boy makes a great Ham and Swiss Chi's sandwich. I love the way it sinks into my belly, it almost feel's like it's going to drop out the back side, uh oh got gooooo!

Dear Chi a pet

>You need to go to John Painter's site for this
>gibberish. Here is somebody you can talk to.

you should not confuse these things. You are referring to a message from in a discussion board where neither the message is from Mr Painter nor the board has anything to do with him -- beside that he is a participant of the board.

So, why are you mentioning Mr Painter in this context?

Kind regards
Volker

INHALE THROUGH THE SOLES OF YOUR FEET?
EXHALE UP THE SPINE?
ARE YOU JOKING?
IF NOT STUDY ANATOMY!!!!

Volker -
Sum Guye asked you where Painter's site was and this was the place you gave him. I know you like Painter and all his nut ball ideas. I expected that you would now defend him and the people he attracts. Don't refute that you told me where to find Painters discussion board because it was on the mini-flame thread that is now long gone. It looks likes a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.

To Those Watching From The Stands,

You guys are right.Chi doesn,t exist.And the internal guys really can fight,just look at "OUR" BBJ men.Their style is internal just like our Tai Chi,Hsing I and Pa Qua.WhOAH how convienent.You clowns were probably beginning to think you really could not fight just like the Chi bliss ninny,s.But the BBJ men proved your not like those guys.

Commandering BBJ as your own by virtue of the internal tag and now going after the Chi guys.I,ll tell you what non fighting internalists and suspicious doubters of Chi.Go back to the sidelines and do what you do best, pre arranged sparring,contriving commonality with BBJ,and criticizing harmless and sincere practicioners.

Some of you clowns neither fight (sorry just because some BBJ practicioner fights does not mean your part of the same club,even if you label it all internal)nor apparently believe in Chi.

Oh the practical sorts.Well bring it on and lets debate some bio mechanics.And I won,t send you back to the stands but to the clinic.THE EGO REDUCTIION CLINIC.

Dear Chi a Pet

>Sum Guye asked you where Painter's site was and
>this was the place you gave him.
>Don't refute that you told me where to find
>Painters discussion board because it was on the
>mini-flame thread that is now long gone.

I know exacly what I wrote. But I did not give the name of the discussion group. You simple choosed the wrong one. There are more than one discussion group about bagua. Just type the name baguazhang and you will get two groups. Just take the right one. It's not that complicated.

>I expected that you would now defend him

I am not defending him, but you simply quoted from a mail that has nothing to do with him. That's simply incorrect.

Kind regards
Volker

someone calling themselves 'The Great Illuminator' threatening to take anyone to the EGO REDUCTION CLINIC.... is too funny.

If you understood the meaning of the term 'internal' when used in the context of martial arts- you'd agree that BJJ (not BBJ) is an internal art.

If you understood the meaning of the term 'Chi'
in the Chinese language you would not think it is some sort of energy one can shoot, swirl or otherwise project out of ones body.

The rest of your post, I simply can't understand.
(I'm not trying to knock the grammer or spelling, but I speak English pretty well and I do not follow what you are trying to say).

I agree with Volker, the quote could be from person who was joking when they asked Bif Painter about inhaling chi through their feet.

...I hope that's the case.

Hey Great Illuminator,

Please illuminate me. What kind of word is commandering and what is BBJ? You might need to go to a writing clinic.

Correct me If I'm wrong but are you saying that you believe in chi and you can explain it bio mechanically as well be able to use it to fight with? Can you also explode chickens at a distance?

Since you call yourself the Great Illuminator I think you should be more clear in what you are trying to say instead of rambling on like some sixth grader who read too many comic books. Please don't talk about ego reductions until you change your handle "Great Illuminator". How big is your head, really?

Great Illuminator;
Did you have a problem with Marcus up there in Colorado? Do you have a Bee in your Bonnet?

Volker -
Double checked. It's the only pure Ba Gua discussion board. There are four. Specify then.