man, I said it earlier and I'll say it again:

If you don't talk to him, he will leave.

Also, anyone who posts as much as GI (as in gastro intestinal distress) is not up to just showing up at a strange school for open mat night. Just a hunch.

Steve- since that strategy didn't work on you...

Great Illum- if I was able to chew my own nads I would have been content to stay home- unmarried- and would've never taken that horrible vacation, thanks for bringing up that excruciating memory.

Back to our 'debate' here is a reenactment:

GI "if you want to debate bio mechanics we can"
Bob#2 "okay, lets go"
GI "since you asked- can you explain to me the
relationship of RFD and Silk reeling"
Bob#2 "when did I ask what?"
GI "above... explain to me the relationship..."
Bob#2 "that's no debate, that's a request for
information"
GI "SARDONIC MORON"
Bob#2 "global village idiot."

Bob #2

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You crack me up man!

Regards Bob

You know what, all I really want to know is:

What does a dead giraffe sound like?

Or better yet,

What would Bryan B. do?

GI,
You sound like one of those frickin internal fruitcakes. I must state, I don't like fruitcake but if it smells like fruitcake, it might not really be fruitcake. One must look past the fruitcakeness and internally experience the moment of the fruitcake.

You're a fu%$#in' idiot. And I don't even workout with these guys, but you give us who practice and enjoy CMA's a bad name. Go rub your frickin chi somewhere else shower boy.

#2,

In your reenactment you forgot your request for an article which I provided via a link.

> Big Balled Betty,

I never rub my chi.But I do play Tai Chi with my Willy.

Strength + Speed = Power.An important factor in maximizing this power is increasing the distance or length over which this force is developed,in the least or of time.The least amount of time without leaks or gaps.RFD.Adam Hsu in his article touches on this very succinctly.

Many verbal cues that are used to enhance or elicit this process are derided by some as being New Age psycho babble.These people IMO,have no understanding of the use of verbal cues as a facilitator of a desired physical response.For instance as Hsu has pointed out the term reeling silk could be misconstrued as some vague and mystical concept,and useless.The beauty in reeling or pulling silk is that it allows both economy of movement and an increase in the distance of developing force.In application some techniques come off as being mysterious or magical,when in actuality the force applied is oftentimes not of a blunt nature,but of a twisting or spiralling nature, leaving no obvious external evidence.

So The Great Illuminator is not so quick to dismiss potentially useful verbal cues as New Age nonsense.Any serious intelligent practitioner realizes that the macho dismissing of mystical or metaphysical verbal cues or phrases is an attitude which does not develop the ability to discern.With this dismissive attitude one may not likely never take the time or have the patience to look and "SEE" if an object is really a circle or if an object is really a square,or maybe something else.And at the point when their "FORMULA" no longer works they are lost.

The great internal fighters of the past must have been hardened pragmatic practitioners.Circumstances,undoubtedly in many cases allowed for nothing less.Could these practitioners have reached the apex of their art if they would have been quick to dismiss every concept which initially seemed vague or abstract?Indeed vague abstract verbal cues have their place in training.They foster an independence and creativity which spoon fed learning never develops.It leaves room for a student to learn for themselves.And it also requires a student work very hard to figure things out.That is also why I am not too quick to label a teacher as one who does not dispense high quality information.Sometimes there is a reason.And sometimes it is for a good reason.

Dismissing mystical sounding verbal cues as useless and non pragmatic is as big as mistake as taking these same cues and treating them as reality.Perhaps that is what some of you are railing against.

In The Great Illuminators opinion for a martial artist to reach the apex in any given art the attributes of creativity and independent thinking are just as important as a structered and step by step process.That being said a student should decide what style they would like to perfect and stick with that style.As an example BJJ suggests that students should spend 80% of their available training time on BJJ.The other 20% on wrestling,kickboxing and weight training.That leaves very little time for the perfecting of other styles.In fact today how common is it to see anybody with true one shot knockout power in Pa Qua or Hsing I.Very Rare.One almost never sees a Ma Wei Chi who developed the nickname of 10 day Ma for his ability to hit an adversary,with them dying days later.In this day this might be refered to as The Litigation Palm.True or not,it leaves no doubt in my mind that to reach the apex in whatever art one is studying,a majority of the time should be spent on that art.I do not believe that the real high powered techniques of Pa Qua or BJJ can be acquired by training or cross training in various styles.

As always just my opinion.

This is REALLY my last post.Big Balled Betty.If your getting a bad name dont blame me.Vertically challenged non athletic bald guys with no real power give themselves their own bad name.

I'm not a Ba Gua practitioner, so silk reeling is not something I'm familiar with. However "Strength + Speed = Power" Not so the formula is speed x mass = force. The power in a strike is developed through the acceleration of that which is being used to fascilitate the strike. A cross is more powerful than a jab because it has a greater distance to gather momentum as well as gaining additional speed from the turning of the waste. In this same vein a roundhouse punch is more powerful than a cross. Strength is not a factor in this formula. Albeit a larger individual i.e. greater mass can certainly hit with more power than a smaller person given proper technique and execution therof. Just thought you might like to know.

In my reenactment, I didn't include my request for information on RFD because I never requested information or links -I only said 'okay'. It's too bad that was your last post- because I'm curious as heck to find out where you think I made that request.

I don't suppose you, in your opinion, know the reason silk reeling energy is called 'silk reeling energy'. If you've ever witnessed the process of pulling silk from silk worms you'd understand why your mention of 'strength' is inaccurate. Relaxation and consistent smooth motions are required in the art of silk reeling- any fluctuation- any hint of STRENGTH will cause the silk strand to break- ruining the whole batch. (Women and young children are best at silk reeling for that very reason, genius)

now that you've finally stated something- we can debate-It makes no sense ask someone to explain something to you and call that a debate.

Bob #2 thinks you are psycho... but Bob #2 is glad that you were able to get all that off your chest. Bob #2 REALLY hopes that you are not considered anyone's 'teacher'. And Bob #2 is looking forward to your moronic drivel under your next self-aggrandizing moniker... cause Bob#2 knows that you just can't help yourself..
Cause Bob #2 is certain you are crazy... and suspects as a result, you think everyone around you is insane.

Bob #2 has to go, Bob #2 has a class to train

Sounds like circle gets the square and that's it for another episode of Hollywood Square's. See you all next time!

Wait, wait handsome, please don't go. I was just starting to like you.

I'm right here toots.

Grit Illuminum,

ah-ha. NOW I see where your fragile little mind hit a snag. When I said "..if you want to debate then bring an article to debate.."
I meant "say something about something" so we can debate it (by article I meant 'thing', 'item', 'topic', 'subject'). I was not asking for you to provide me with a literary article on a 'topic' because that would be stupid (funny you made that connection). I assumed your grasp of the English language was better than it is, Sorry for confusing you.

You see, if BoBo challenges Binki to a debate on TV sitcoms, and the very first thing BoBo says is "explain to me the relationship between Aunt B and Mrs. Brady" -- there is nothing debatable yet.
Now, BoBo, who made the debate challenge, has asked for an explanation rather than begining any sort of debate. Binki, suspecting that BoBo is a few fries short of a happy meal, says, "BoBo, if you want to debate, lets debate something. I'm not going to bother explaining relationships to you cause that isn't a debate"

BoBo screams "there's an article on it a TV.Guide.com you pathetic wormhole!"

Binki has to laugh and laugh because BoBo is still screaming and Binki is certain the voices in BoBo's head stutter.

gu-gu-ggood-nig-n-night,t-t-t-tur- t-t-turrr
turkey b-b-brain.

"Vertically challenged non athletic bald guys with no real power."

GI, you just described me. Becareful, some of use can really use our ki (chi) quite effectively. I can scream like a b&tch (kiai) when I'm really scared. Very powerful.

good training,
Macaco fino

>Original Macaco fino

I couldn,t have been describing you.I said no real power.That never has sounded like you.

Bob and The Sardonic One

No strength huh.You initiate and propel the mass using what?I think you guys are closer to the Biff Painter camp than you would like to believe.

When I attended then University of Wyoming the athletic department provided summer jobs for the football players and wrestlers if we wanted them.We would work on the local ranches bailing hay and other assorted manual labor type jobs.Very good conditioning.You lift and propel a bail of hay using what?

Bob your point about mass and velocity is well taken albeit used out of proper context.But I understand your point.As a matter of fact do you know how hard the wind blows in Wyoming?So hard that one day driving on a desolate stretch oh highway between Laramie and Medicine Bow I spit out the window of my pickup and killed a hitchhiker.No doubt it was a forceful hack,a lot of strength was involved.And the loogie was of the stout variety.But how in the name of Mantak Chia is a man killed by a hacked loogie from a pickup truck?Righto Bob the velocity of the loogie,aided by those wicked Wyoming winds.

That poor guy on his way to a rainbow tribe peace gathering.How many Dead and Phish concerts did he miss because of that Wyoming wind?How many hippie ladies languidly dancing with unshaved underams did he miss out on.How many bong induced snowboard runs?Or bungee cord dives?All because of an forceful insensitive hack of a stout loogie with the aid of Wyomings wickedest natural occurance.

Never to smell the fragrance of sagebrush after a Wyoming thundershower.

Eccentric and concentric expansion and contractions of muscles and connective tissue are required to iniate movement.And strength is required.Yes not of the rigid or inflexible variety.But strenghth nonetheless.How is the energy of the flexible steel arm and palm of Pa Qua used if strength is thrown out the window?These eccentric and concentric actions are the conerstone of movement,and muscles and strength are required.Modern day professional athletes use plyometrics as one prefered method of functional training
along with other methods.These eccentric and concentric rates of force development are fundemental to the develpment of explosive power.And to initiate these movements strength is required.Has there ever been a greater plyometric exercise developed that the Dragon form of HSING I?

As far as the reeling of silk goes there needs to be a delicate balance of the above mentioned actions to prevent the tearing of silk.One does not to be rigid or inflexible to use strength.And Pa Qua and Hsing I use a little bit different way of developing this than Tai Chi.

Bob #2 Pa qua sometimes uses entry methods that progress in a sequential manner.The climbing of a rope as it were.So a person needs to listen through to the end of the conversation .Otherwise they become entrapped.Right about now I have wrapped around your head about to use a litigation palm to the base of the skull.Metaphorically speaking.So dont go knawing at your neck to escape.

But I will relinquish.I am Declaring Final Victory.And no longer will I post on this board.

Thank you GI. Personally, I don't think you should leave this board. I really like the expression, "how in the name of Mantak Chia." I'm going to use this (if it's okay with you) at my 3:00pm business meeting.

good training,
Macaco fino

GI,

Your declaration of victory is null and void because you have proven your declarations empty and meaningless by posting after declaring "this is REALLY my last post" 12 hours prior to your most recent post.

You can't help posting on this board.
You are convinced you are an IMA expert and you
absolutely need to prove it.. especially here because you have just enough sense to know that we are credible. You may pick other names. You may feign other spelling and grammatical errors to conceal yourself but it never works... it never works, Tommy boy.

I WIN, I WIN-- ALL THE MARBLES ARE MINE!

Do what you have to, but please just go. Don't resurrect yourself via a new name.

Did anybody in here say that strength and muscles are not required to move? I don't think so. I remembered that you were pro chi kind of guy. Anyway, your attempts to enlighten us proved to be feeble and self aggrandizing. Just admit it you wanted people to say how smart you are and pat you on the back for having such insights...NOT REALLY!!! As far as I'm concerned you should be a candidate for the Darwin award. Please take you self out of the species. I bet you'd win if you kill yourself with your own loogie. You'd be doing everybody a favor and we would all cheer when it happens.

"However 'Strength + Speed = Power' Not so the formula is speed x mass = force."

F = ma, actually.
And you're interested in energy here, not force.

Bob #2 knew you couldn't stop posting!

(neither can Bob #2)