Pardon me sir,but I dont need claivoyant powers to tell that your not being straight with me. Im just a curious student that happened to notice certain things changing about myself after I started training for a while{not just my physical body}. Im interested in the abnormal "hidden" aspects of the art{if any}.


Thank you

Mark Hatfield,

Lip sync-ing works- and it's crap.

The Edsell worked- but it was crap.

Bending spoons works- but it's crap once you learn the trick.

Humble Student,

You got me! Just having a little fun mate.

I have a real question for you, what did you notice changing after you started to practice Ba Gua?

He noticed he could lip-sync, bend spoons and work on Edsells.

Send me 5,000 dollars and I'll send you the super secrets of the internal martial arts.

Uri,well sir, I noticed right from the begining an increse in my overall ability to predict things that hadn't happened yet.{exp. Ill here a car in the distance and say to myself thats so and so and when it gets close it turns out Im right or Ill find myself walking up to a phone and picking it up when theres some one there before it even rings or knowing which songs are on the radio.} Nothing to grand, I cant bend spoons or any thing like that, but it seems the more I practice the stronger these sences get. Is there any limits? Am I doing something wrong? Can you plese help me sir?

Thank you

When there is fire there is smoke

Funny thing is Ba gua is designed to teach fighting, and for some strange reason it seems to be teaching people magic. Strange how lots of people training internal martial arts never learn how to fight (the thing internal was designed for), but lots of them get magic powers (¿?). Stranger thing is that learning to fight is relatively simple, with a good teacher and dedicated training most anyone can become proficient. However the development of magic powers seems to be even easier, and requires only the watching of several martial arts movies and the ability to use internet forums.

-Chris Hein

David: A couple of things which I experienced decades ago, long before I ever heard of the reptile brain (aka frog brain) concept.

I casually reached out and began to grab a metal cup. It was empty but too hot to touch, I reflexively pulled away, shook my hand and said 'ow' or some such thing. Then, to my surprise, I reached out, grabbed it firmly, and threw it acrossed the room. I did this more swiftly than I knew that I could. This happened automatically, it was not a deliberate act nor was it an act of rage. Years later I learned that this was not unusual. The cause is said to be where a simpler, more basic part of the brain, overrides the more complex reasoning (but slower) part of the brain. In this type of situation, the 'frog brain' yells at the nervous system 'Hey, there's something which can hurt you, GET IT AWAY FROM YOU'. P.S. I was burned the first time I grabbed it but not the second.

While dishwashing during high school and college days, at one place, the trays of dirty dishes were on a counter in front of me, an overhead shelf held the racks where I would place water glasses. The pace was very fast. I would glance at the trays to spot the glasses and remove them first, grabbing one in each hand, and slaming then into the overhead racks.

One day, upon the first grab into a tray, my hand came back to my shoulder, palm forward, elbow pointed down. I was astounded, my empty hand had moved (returned) faster than magic, right up to my shoulder. What the hell was going on? I saw that the glass I had touched was broken, instead of a rim, it had only a sharp point. I didn't just touch that point like a pin prick, I had slammed my palm down on that point of glass. I had felt it, but 'reflexively' my hand moved away before I was cut. I believe my eyes had taken in the sight of the broken glass, and the 'lower' faster but simpler part of the brain was able to intervene while the rest of the brain had not yet processed the information.

Later I learned that in WWII researchers discovered this concept and were able to teach aircraft pilots to aim accurately and rapidly by NOT thinking about it and essentially doing what comes naturally. They didn't have the levels of the brain idea, but the practice worked. Col. Jeff Cooper in the 60s and 70s rediscovered some of this stuff and applied it to shooting powerful handguns both rapidly and accurately. You can also find references to these concepts in the older works on Japanese sword arts.

I have had other experiences but some are more related to seizure type activity, although I have never knowingly had a seizure, these types of things prompted my study of the mind. Be advised however, my fingers do not glow and nothing 'mystical' has even been involved, just some unusual effects of our own wiring.

Get Payton Quinns two books, you may find them usefull.

This thread is somewhat marred even before starting; Gao style, and indeed much of Tim's teaching, (in my humble and limited understanding) does not activity promote the concept of 'Chi' - argably an instrinsic componant to any 'uncovered power', but they rather focus on the practical componants of the system and 'getting the job done'

If people are really interested in researching such phenomana try reading "Tao of Bioengenetics" (I posted a thread a while back relating to this book enquiring whether any of fine fellows had read it, but unfortuately to no avail)

I cannot be bothered to give summaries here, really explain my take on this subject or spell check ;)(precious lunch break!) but virtually all forms of meditation result in the brain reverting back to alpha waves as opposed to beta - like an olimpic athlete before firing the bow, or running the race - an 'optium state' if you will...

RE Mark Hatfield - absolutely, wu wei - not doing.

Since I started studing IMA- my eyes just skip right over certain posts. It's as if my lizard mind understands more than my human mind.

My human mind wants to read everything and make decisions about it. My lizard mind doesn't want to bother with utter crap- prefering to lounge in the sun and lick my eyes.

I have read that book,Has any one read The Tao of Physics?

"able to teach aircraft pilots to aim accurately and rapidly by NOT thinking about it and essentially doing what comes naturally."

The intersting thing about this phenomena is that preceding the event, the pilots always hear a voice saying "use the force Luke."

BoB#2 Do you belive that cultivating qi, is utter crap?Do you then think also that qigung\neigung is also crap?If not, then seeing is beliving, and kicking butt is the only thing that matters?

I can say from my understanding, that the act of fighting, can bring out the best and the worst in man.{as any one who has ever fought in a life\death situation will know]Can you say that that the act of fighting,{which is a true act} will then bring you closer to spiritual enlightenment, or is it then just a violent ritual for distruction and slaughter of your fellow man?

I await your answer sir

I prefer the violent ritual for destruction and slaughter of of my fellow man and have been able to add a spiritual aspect to this process.

Master Owl,
My answer depends on what you mean by "cultivating qi". If English is your primary language, it should be simple for you to word the question differently.

As for your second question- I don't believe the ACT of fighting will bring one closer to spiritual enlightenment- (nor do I believe it's just a violent ritual for destruction and slaughter of yellow man).

Frankly, all the people I've known about who have come closest to exhibiting spiritual enlightenment were on the wimpy side . Gandhi, Jesus, Martin Luther King, Jr., Sidartha.
(I respect them greatly, but wouldn't really expect any of them to kick anyones ass).

Bob#2

my Chi-senses are tingling- warning me that you'll misunderstand the post above and launch some hairbrained diatribe about the existance of qi.

If, by "cultivation of qi", you mean; building up some invisible globs of a powerful weapon which can be used to control opponents with out touch, and/or gain extrasensory powers- yep- that's crap.

If, by "cultivation of qi" you mean building up physcial strength, stamina & methodology for delivering devestating force causing damage to your opponent- I don't think that's crap... and it's one of the reasons I study IMA.

I grew tired of being 'Spiritual Enlightened' ages ago.

You've answered the questions, My respects

Do you belive in the higher levels of fajin?{such as shocking jin...ext} if so, do you think the traditional [jing+{yi=xin}]+qi+li=jin+{yi=xin}=fajin is the correct cultivating methodology for delivering devestating force or supple healing techniques?

I gather that English is not your primary language since you continue to toss around Chinese terminology, so I'll do my best to answer what I think you are asking.

Fa Jin (means "issue force"... which, in a cruder sense means "hit hard"). Yes- I believe folks who train correctly can develop very powerful ways to issue force/hit hard (fa jin). (Fa= issue/release Jin= trained structure).

I have felt "shocking fa jing" which is a 'shorter version of issuing force- it hurt about the same as a regular "Fa jing" but was more jolting.

you ask if I think "[jing+{yi=xin}]+qi+li=jin+{yi=xin}=fajin"
(allow me to translate this into English for you)
trained structure {jing} + intent/focus {yi} + stamina/atheletc ability {qi}+ brute,clumsy strenght {Li} + the mind (Yi)= a way to issue force (Fa Jin).

No. Because brute, clumsy strength has no place in that wacky little equation.

not sure what you mean by "supple healing techniques" but my lizard mind tells me I don't need to find out.

I Agree,but I still belive in strength, and in certain tech.'s you need to have just a little bit of li.



Good conversation though