Archive through December 30, 2003

Tim's Discussion Board: Ba Gua Zhang : Circle walking: Archive through December 30, 2003
   By Tim on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 01:04 pm: Edit Post

The flat foot stepping method is one of several types of circle walk stepping, and is usually taught to beginners. The purpose is to assure stability in the steps and greater exercise for the legs. This type of step is not used in actual application of techniques.

   By Chris Seaby (Unregistered Guest) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 09:02 pm: Edit Post

Yes, don't know, yes and yes.

   By Alex Hanning on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 02:57 pm: Edit Post

Thanks Tim. Would you say that any of the 'several types of circle walk stepping' methods include shifting/sliding/dragging the feet though?
What would do you think makes this practice method deficient in actual application?

   By Tim on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 12:01 pm: Edit Post

The basic ways to step include picking the whole foot up and putting the foot down flat, sliding the feet along the ground without picking them up, picking the feet up then sliding the toe into the ground first as you step forward, lifting the foot up to about knee height then sliding the toe forward, and finally, normal heel to toe walking with the steps kept low.

During the circle walk, all stepping methods follow the rule of slightly toeing in the outside foot and keeping the inside foot's step parallel with the outside foot.

Trying to slide the feet on the ground in a fight causes too much friction (makes steps slower) and uses an excess of energy(fighting is not the time for power training).

   By Alex Hanning on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 12:33 pm: Edit Post

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was referring to the flat foot stepping when asking what makes that practice deficient.
Thanks for the other info though. It's nice to hear these sort of things clearly articulated!

   By Chris Seaby (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:32 pm: Edit Post

The LZM method of picking the whole foot up (literally picking the root up) is used in fixed (basic) stepping and continuous stepping including applications.

As Tim alluded to; shifting, sliding, dragging etc is an inefficient (sets up a form of hystersis; 'rolling' resistance, shifts centre of gravity)and slow method.

To use this type of stepping in fighting requires a specific and 'strict' body method (developed in conjunction with fixed stepping) which once you can maintain consistently allows you to move both quickly and powerfully whilst maintaining a 'stable' centre. This is why there is a strong emphasis on 'the basics' and why body and stepping methods are reliant on each other. The downside is it takes time (and patience), depending on background, natural ability, age etc.

On Jarek's website there is an interview with Ma Chuanxu which covers these and other characteristics of this style of Ba Gua.

Btw i use similiar methods in Xing Yi as well.

   By Bob #2 on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:53 pm: Edit Post

Didn't the work 'whilst' drop out of circulation around the same time as 'doth' and 'thyne'.

I'm all for reiterating everything Tim just stated using more words, semi-colons and extra parenthetical notes- but does one really NEED to toss in 'whilst' while doing so?

   By Chris Seaby (Unregistered Guest) on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 12:02 am: Edit Post

Moi, (as one's good self has no doubt deduced) is out of circulation too.

In regards to the aforementioned post, i am of the conjecture that it is to a greater extent, a case of re-instatement in terms of LZM, rather than axiomaticaly reiteration. There is of course the dissimilitude with respect to the 'flat footed method' being in essence circumscribed to 'beginners' only.

Yours in good faith.

   By Bob #2 on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 12:45 am: Edit Post

Perhaps thou shouldeth avoidest usage of 'LZM' when only thouest knoweth whateth the fucketh 'LZM' meaneth.

Let me ask you a hypodermical question; if you were to get attacked on your way out of the library by a roughian offended by your vernacularbation- would you run away from him flat-footed or heel-to-toe?

Which is more efficient?

   By adam orozco on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 02:48 pm: Edit Post

Hay Tim


   By Tim on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 09:12 pm: Edit Post

Hey Adam,
Whatsup? Keeping the criminals where they belong?

   By Chris Seaby (Unregistered Guest) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 12:03 am: Edit Post

I've got no idea, probably about as fast as some-one who shoots themself in the foot, might be time for one of your experiments.

   By adam orozco on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 11:55 am: Edit Post

we are trying to but sometimes we find more than two in the same cubical during the nights.

   By Shanhezai (Unregistered Guest) on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 02:09 pm: Edit Post

I thought some of you might be interested in, an information site for gao bagua as well as other internal martial arts. they have videos of lo de-xiu and translated books.

   By Tim on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 03:09 am: Edit Post



   By Maciej (Unregistered Guest) on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 04:03 pm: Edit Post

"This reputation brought martial arts master Yang Chun Feng to Yin Fu's door. Yang's reputation was fading and he hoped to enhance it at the expense of Yin. Yin confused Yang by politely inviting him in for tea and highly praising Yang's martial reputation. Yang decided that this man was decidedly too calm to actually fight with, so he proposed a martial contest instead. In this contest, Yin would demonstrate his famous defensive footwork, by letting Yang attack him while Yin's hands were tied behind his back. Yin agreed! Yang Chun Feng began with controlled attacks, but as it became apparent that he couldn't get near Yin, his frustration grew. Soon, Yang was attacking full blast and yet he still couldn't lay a hand on Yin Fu. Yang tried his best technique, The Poison Hand, but still to no effect. Eventually Yang collapsed on the ground from sheer exhaustion. When he could speak again, Yang begged to become Yin's student and Yin agreed."

Is this true? Are there pakua masters who can tie their hands behind their backs and not even be hit? WHat is so special about pakua footwork?

   By Kenneth Sohl on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 08:03 am: Edit Post

OK, I'll bite too. There is quite a bit of info on "jing" and "whole body power" and such, but I have always heard about aikido's evasiveness, and that it comes from Bagua, which also has all this lore about its evasiveness. Exactly what kind of training forms a foundation for this?

   By Tim on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 07:56 pm: Edit Post

I don't know about fighting people with your hands tied behind your back, but the foundation for Baguazhang's evasiveness is in it's circle walking and footwork practice. Baguazhang also emphasizes training an extremely flexible upper body.

   By Maciej (Unregistered Guest) on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 08:06 pm: Edit Post

Tim can you describe the footwork practise and how it differs from other style's footwork?

   By Kenneth Sohl on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 10:23 am: Edit Post

There is a book by Park Bok Nam that has several footwork drills in it. He also talked about "spinal wave" or something which must be referring to the flexible upper body.