Whoops Ok I've got confused between Bobs, I'm happy If we can just get along and put the tiff behind us...

p.s. I'm also always getting my self into crap when I have a few beers, just know by now to stay away from my PC and MA discussion groups when getting home from the Pub :?)

Cheers

Jay

Good luck. And •••• those Bobs.

Sure
TaiChiBOB has never met a JAY that he couldn't party with

there will be NO Bob sex for you, buddy.

Dear Bob number 2

When I orignally made a discussion point on where and when opponents may be more easy to knock out. You stated "that's a bunch of Chi-Huggin' rhetoric. Good for impressing dim-witted students- pointless for martial ability".

Your reply made you appear (to me) supercilious, however assuming you are candid in your discussions then there is no reason to doubt that you may be a high calibre MA.

I stand by my comments... perhaps would you be so kind as to elaborate on why you think training in Yiquans Fali drills (I believe I gave the example of rotating a big iron ball Fali exercise) is in your words "so pointless for martial ability".

Maybe I am missing some more advanced ways for developing martial ability which are not as you say pointless. As your comments appearingly postulated you are a superior adept... I would be extremely gratefull if you could share an explanation of your own neijia concepts regarding what you consider usefull for development and application of Martial ablity.

Kind Regards

Jay

Jay,

Congratulations on your recent acquisition of a thesaurus.

The idea of your teacher's neijia technique of momentarily putting an opponent in suspended animation is knee deep in chi-hugger fantasy muck. I mean WHAT'S UP WITH THAT? (of all the students in the class, didn't anyone snicker?)

I'm sure practicing Fali drills helps develop whole body power. But if you have to lull some guy into "limbo" before you can knock him out you're off the deep end. And if the big benefit to all your training is counting on your opponent to "mess up" during your fight, or slip on ice... yes, you are missing the more advanced ways of developing martial ability.

And what people move at 30 miles per hour? And, if a 160lb body was traveling at 30mph and you hit it with your fist- do you fantasize that you would stand solid while the hurling body crumbled around you? Guess what- you'd break every bone in your arm and probably dislocate your shoulder and clavicle.

Shall I continue?

Dear Bob 2

Bob that's fine, you've picked on pieces of my writing, and the thesaurus jibe was quite predictable. I'll try to re explain ... "suspended animation" is perhaps not a good way of trying to desribe what's going on, perhaps a momentary shock to the system is better? Ever had whiplash in a car when breaking suddenly ... The walking on an icy path was a comparison to the effect felt when a fali is sucessful and opponent looses balance

Your comments "Guess what- you'd break every bone in your arm and probably dislocate your shoulder and clavicle" I disagree with and feel your taking the writing out of context, normally the only breaking bones when hitting...is the opponents, like their ribs or jaw... trust me

Hsingi has been around 100s of years and the drilling technique which I explained is a bona-fide technique ... the speeds of travel were for example, I'm not sure what speed the average punch travel at but the concept is using approprate leverage to increase the striking power... but you've come up with something I never wrote i.e. "a 160lb body hurling through the air" I never stated anything about that at all, so please don't embelish and add to my own writings.

OK if you could, please continue, (without re attacking or breaking down and rubutting what I've written), I'd politely ask if you could explain to me some of the more advanced ways of developing martial ability

Cheers

Jay

Jay,

"normally the only breaking bones when hitting...is the opponents, like their ribs or jaw... trust me". TRUST YOU?? Have you ever given any thought to why boxers tightly wrap their fists and wear padded gloves? (hint- it's not to prevent breaking jaws). Have you ever wondered why most IMA striking is taught to punch closed fist to soft tissue & open hand to the head?

These are your words, unembelished "...so person is moving forward at 30 mph fist is travelling toward them at 30 mph impact at 60 mph" (even if the hurtling body is only 80lbs your bare fist and arm bones would not absorb such a shock).

I understand what you're alluding, badly, to and I undertand the concept your teacher was trying, unsuccessfully, to impart to you and your classmates- but what YOU wrote in YOUR post, which has nothing to do with this thread about Nat, a shy, 120lb computer science major, who only practices once a week, reads like chi-hugger fantasy mularky.

Here's the breakdown of more advanced ways of developing martial ability:

1- Learn everything

2- Spar regularly

3- practice your whole-body drills (fali)

4- once you're able to fluidly move and change to match, blend with then mix up your opponent's game plan...

5- jerking them into a punch or jarring them in order to cause a split second opening for yourself to hit them in the jaw, at the correct angle, with the correct force, you may be able to knock them out. (but that's a far cry from temporarily suspended animation).

6- whiplash doesn't come from a car breaking. It comes when a vehical, traveling and a greater speed, colides with yours from behind. And, no, I have never been stupid enough to be hit from behind while in a car.

7- I haven't read the Tai Ji Chuan book you mentioned earlier (with the faggoty postures) but I'm willing to bet you $400 cash I could train your 5 year old neice 5 days a week for 6 months and she could desimate you in a fight. Are you willing to put your money and neice where you mouth is, Lippy!!!?

Bob#2
(dear to you)

Dear Lippy

So you're partly agreeing with me..

As for whiplash it can occur from car breaking.. your wrong... and I never heard of the pugilists of old breaking every bone in their arm and clavice and shoulder... thats in the days when punching without gloves

Jay

I agree with you that your post about knockouts was poorly worded and misleading.


Pugilists use gloves today- because of the fight-ending broken fists pugilist of the past experienced. (promoters got tired of angry crowds who paid to see a fight only to have it end in the second round because some lummox broke his hand hitting another lummox in the head) On a side note, any pugilist traveling at 30mph hitting another human traveling in the opposite direction at 30mph would have broken knuckles, tarples, radius and ulna and probably dislocated a shoulder.

how many beers did you have today, angry little man?

(everyone's noticed your reluctance to respond to my bet).

test

Dear Bob 2

I just wrote a message but lost it so here goes again. I admire your gumption in stiking by what you believe in. Lets just agree to disagree on the broken bones issue (well I meet you halfway cause I believe both ways can happen).

Lol... I'm not an angry little man, and no beers today I'm working, it's funny how you can get a false impression of people from a discussion group... the problem is Website discussion is 1 dimensional and if you've not explained very well and the others misenterpreted then you end up with a misunderstanding.

As for the bet my brother in law (whom BTW is a respected high level MA) was not amused when I told him some American guy wants to teach his daughter to beat me up...

I'm sure If we ever meet up (I've always wanted to see america), maybe a Tims school one day, Im sure we'd get on just fine.

I agree with your martial concepts

Happy Wandering

Damn
I passed out drunk
got up to pee
and realized I'd missed the whole thread.

I feel like Rip Van Tinkle

I did have a dream of BooB sex
It was like BOB sex with bilateral OO's

You did'nt miss much, just an "angry little man" being an evasive whatchamacallit and being put in his place by a chronic hypochondriac paranoid of Paget’s Disease... (i.e. excessive worry/complex about complete structural collapse when hitting hard with bare fists) :?(

Rip Van Tinkle, he he...
BTW through all that excessive drinking you may qualify you for an "angry little man" salutation :?)

Excuse my ignorance but whats with the bilateral OO's, while I'm asking what does "whew" mean

Cheers Jay

p.s on a serious note the human body is capable of extraordinary feats check out these links...
http://www.paladin-press.com/detail.aspx?ID=1067
http://www.mawn.net/ki25.htm
http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/karate.html

As you can see when specifically "conditioned" the human body can go through a lot of tough withstanding before bones start a breaking !

Happy Wandering

I'm guessing that you are fairly new to MA. If you stick with a striking MA style long enough you will injure your wrists, elbows and shoulders. Bob #2 is right in what he says. If you've never punched a pad and gone over on your wrist, you will; if it has n't happened yet it's because you have n't hit the punch pad hard enough. If you hit full power with a bent elbow often enough you grow bone spurs on your elbow joints. These are fairly trivial in comparison to what will happen to your shoulders. I absolutely hammered a heavy bag for about 30 minutes one time. That night I was in serious pain. The following day I was practically weeping. Ever tried to open a bottle of DF118 with one hand..? The best way is to hold the top in your teeth. Couldn't drive for 2 weeks. Pain and discomfort lasted 6 months. Arthritis is very common in strikers; I have worn away the cartlidge on my right wrist, but I know some who are a lot worse than me. You sound like a young guy to me Jason and so middle age will probably seem a long, long way away, but ask yourself now if you want to be strong and fit when your heading towards old age. The smart answer is yes and the way to avoid being a middle or old aged cripple is to treat your body with respect, because all the damage you do to it is cumulative. Most experienced martial arts guys will tell you that these "superhuman" feats you mentioned are just ploys designed to deceive the ignorant. If you want to become a skilled fighter then leaarn footwork. It is said "I would sooner teach one hundred ways to strike than one way to move the feet"

Thanks for the advice, it sounds good... I'm certainly young at heart, middle age is approching quicker though... my last post was just to keep the enthusiastic discussion going (he he)...

I have been through all of the external stages in my MA training and have broken hand/ribs to show for it! I also picked up a weird hip injury from too many (too many !) side kicks, now I dare not try a side kick with my left leg as the hip sometimes goes a clickety click and weakness follows in the leg, yup I was pretty damn good at side kicks before that... damn ! (the good old days :?)

As for footwork I have studied that extensively in Yiquan/Aikido/Suns Taiji/Hsingi and sparring from my old external arts days.... I agree with you on the footwoork and it's the only way I can beat my younger brother, as at wrestling he can beat me quite easily (if he get to grapple me that is... note the "if")

Kind Regards

Jay

BTW I still use a punch bag for conditioning but if I overdo it I notice the effects the next day... are you still using the punch bag, just wondering

Jay

Hi Jason;
Don't ignore the symptoms you have in your left hip as I had the same ones in my right hip and, they kept getting worse and I had to have a hip replacement this Spring.

Depresssing how many 50+ martial artists I know who have blown a hip or shoulder or elbow or knee or lower back.

I wish that I had trained more moderately and scientifically when I was younger ...

Ok
Both of you are right in some regaurds and both of you are wrong is some regaurds.
Everybody and every fight is different, to speak in terms of absolutes is just stupid, what may break one persons bone or knock one individual out may not on another person.
So if you ask me all this script writing, is like ok I'll do this and then he'll say this and do this and then his bones will break and he will also be knocked out. And I will always win of course.
BORING
There are principles written in Chinese calligraphy on the BOB school of Tai Chi and culunary arts.
#1 Maximum efficiancy with minimal effort
#2 If you want to make God laugh tell him what your plans are
#3 pay your mat fee on time

The trouble with writing out script in my experience is that my opponent inevitably has not read the same script I have. His script usually has me breaking my bones and being knocked out.
My gawd apply some of that yeilding softness to your mental and emotional stubborness.
OOs for BOOOOOOOOOBs
you may have noticed these on the curvery bumbier version of the human being
Also Jay
you confused the Bobs again I am not Mr. Bob#2
"Whew" probally means he is glad that the road of esoteric mystisism that surronds the Chi therory in IMA is a bunch of whooey that does nothing to improve ones fighting ability, and it is a great headache on a discussion board where hearsay and a empiric standard of proof is the rule of logic that can not be argued with in any sane manner.
I have never been considered an ANGRY LITTLE MAN but I am willing to drink and smoke my way through this and put it all behind me along with all those other arm chair psychatric diagnosises projected onto my by borderline personalities that do not allow the fact the have not been to medical school stop them from making diagnosis and recommending treatments.
BTW when has being at work ever stop somebody from drinking, that where a lil' swig is needed most, all that stress of thinking and stuff.

anyway just to make you feel better in you borderline attempt to STIR THINGS UP

you're all wrong I'm right and even when I'm wrong I'm right because I will never admit I was wrong and will always insist I'm right and eventually I will ware you all out with my unending endurance and unwavering stance of being right and that is what evantually gets the last word in- on a disscussion board.
Then I can validate my own bull after everybody has forgotten what the original point was to begin with and then I will quote Big names like Chen Xio Wang and say he said even though he doesn't speak English and then I will make up all kinds of wierd junk science and half truths and say so and so said it and I will soon be Emperor of the discussion board and King of the nut house, where simmilar conversation occur daily, and I shoulkd know because when I'm not homeless, or working at McDonalds that where I like to keep out of the cold and teach my BOB style Tai CHi

Thanks Michael, I'm quite careful nowadays and the Taiji form seems to make me more aware of my body state... I've got a little black book of yours on Taiji somewhere (he says looking a bookshelf with over 5 rows of 300 + books but cant locate it at present... I liked the mentioning of the 2 main different ways we can practice the from 1. The smooth Chi gathering way and 2. The pausing at end of each posture way. I did do a write up on different ways for form practice for my Taiji training (maybe thats another discussion for another day).

Hey Taichi BOB, any thing Master CHEN XIO WANG says is gospel as far as I'm concerned matey. As for stirring thinks up don't you mean lively discusion. Hey who cares you're always right anyway RIGHT! (or wrong depending or which way you wanna answer that is)? Chuang Tsu once said "Waiting for another to learn about changing opinions is waiting for nothing. We can harmonise conflicting opinions by the invisible operation of Heaven, and by this method complete our years without disturbing our minds".

p.s I have had broken bones (hand) from hitting & (ribs) from being hit so I,m maybe both wrong and right at the same time... Oh nevermind !