Black Dragon Waves its Tail

Tim's Discussion Board: Ba Gua Zhang : Black Dragon Waves its Tail
   By Gwheel on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 10:28 pm: Edit Post

I am looking for a video that demonstrates the Gao-style Bagua form Black Dragon Waves its Tail can anybody steer me in the right direction.

   By Buddy on Sunday, June 17, 2001 - 09:24 am: Edit Post

Hi Tim,
I've not seen the Black Dragon Waves it's Tail change. Luo describes it as a distillation of the previous palms. Could you describe this change and how it distills the palms? Also are there 10 or 24 Tien Gan?

   By Tim on Sunday, June 24, 2001 - 06:00 pm: Edit Post

Black Dragon Waves its Tail is a closing form which incorporates some of the movements of the circle forms in a continuous set.

There are a total of 22 Tian Gan exercises. There are ten characters, the first nine have two exercises each, a large and small variation. The last character, 'song' has four exercises.

   By Buddy on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 09:33 am: Edit Post

Thank you very much Tim for your reply.

   By Robert Mathers on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 01:49 am: Edit Post

what are the purposes of the Tian Gan exercises? I am assuming these exercises are designed for more than just strengthening the body. It seems most sets/forms/exercises in Bagua are in sets of eight - why are there ten characters? thanks,

   By Tim on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 04:33 pm: Edit Post

The Tian Gan exercises are primarily designed to strengthen the body and increase flexibility. They are unique in that they increase strength and flexibility at the same time and to the same degree (cultivating the ability to issue force at the very extremes of the practitioners range of motion), and because the movements are designed specifically to build power for Ba Gua Zhang techniquues.

There are ten sets because that's how many were thought necessary to work all the basic movements.

   By Mark Hatfield on Wednesday, July 11, 2001 - 09:36 pm: Edit Post

Tim Are these Tian Gan movements in your books or videos?

   By Bob #2 on Wednesday, July 11, 2001 - 10:15 pm: Edit Post


"There are ten sets because that's how many were thought necessary to work all the basic movements."


Do you think it's ok to invent some extra sets to string along students for a much longer period of time? I mean- COME ON.... a teacher has to make a living somehow. And students are just gaping money bags, right???? I've got my student's doing 39 sets at the begining of each class (while I watch Rikki Lake in my office). And by the time they master them I'm going to add another 12 I'm inventing. I'm calling them "Ancient Chinese Secret Sholin Bris Movements". (I'm getting togther with Earle Montigue to include them in a cutting edge video soon).

Bob #2

   By Tim on Wednesday, July 11, 2001 - 10:56 pm: Edit Post

My books and videos don't include the Tian Gan.

   By Theo Vereecken on Thursday, July 12, 2001 - 03:25 am: Edit Post

Allen Pittman has produced a video on Tian Gan: Gao 24 Exercises/Celestial Stems ( see )

   By Walter on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 01:40 pm: Edit Post

How could one go about learning the tain gan who doesn't live on the west coast? I am trying to expand on the different things that I practice to train more effectively, and I thought the tian gan might be helpful. And a somewhat related question, what are the eight basic hand techniques or methods that are refered to on Luo's tapes? Thank you. Walter

   By Tim on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 05:06 pm: Edit Post

I don't know of anyone in the States that teaches the Tian Gan (at least our version of it) besides me and Marcus Brinkman in Denver.

The Eight Basic Hand Techniques are the first movements learned in the Gao style. They form the foundation of the hand methods used in the techniques. They are:
1. Piercing
2. Chopping
3. Pushing
4. Crashing
5. Covering
6. Whipping
7. Lifting
8. Wrapping

   By Kohei on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 09:23 pm: Edit Post

Hi Tim,

Could you describe in words ( if possible ) 'whipping' ?
And which character is it in Mandarin ?

Thanx for your replies,

   By Tim on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 02:20 pm: Edit Post

Whipping is a back hand strike that is done much as you would throw a frisbee. It is called "shuai" in Mandarin.

   By Capt Ahab on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 06:15 pm: Edit Post


"Ancient Chinese Secret Sholin Bris Movements"
"a cutting edge video"

Hmmmm. I suppose no pun intended here?!


   By Kohei on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 12:02 pm: Edit Post

Thanx Tim !

   By Walter on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 02:39 pm: Edit Post

Thanks for listing the eight basic hand techniques. Have you or Marcus ever considered seminars on the east coast for tian gan, perhaps in the Boston area?
Happy holidays, Walter

   By Tim on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 05:19 pm: Edit Post

I've done about a dozen seminars in the Boston area. I'm always available for seminars with a little advance notice.

   By Joe Bellone on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 07:02 pm: Edit Post

I'm looking to bring Tim out in the Spring '02. I'm in the process of setting up a group again. It looks like I'll be able to use an Academy in the greater Lowell area.

If anyone is interested in training and seminars with Tim, please email me and I'll get back to you with more details.

good training,

   By Walter on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 02:06 pm: Edit Post

Sounds great. Can I get your email address somehow? Thanks,

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