If one wanted to learn a style to handle multiple attackers, is Bagua a good choice or would you recommend some other style? My understanding is that no style will enable you to "take out" multiple opponents. But I wonder if through guerrilla like evasion techniques and tactics one can survive and deal some damage to multiple attackers long enough to create opportunities for escape. With the assumption that no style has all the answers for every conceivable encounter/situation, what style has a skill/technique set best suited for surviving multiple opponents without getting your face smashed or ending up dead?

three sectional staff . see "master killer:36th chamber of shaolin" .. u can beat up one guy with one end and another with the other end.

also see: track

particularly the middle distances (400m-5000m)

Supposedly bagua was invented with exactly the situation of multiple attackers in mind, so it would probably be at least as good a choice as any.

However, I don't think "multiple attackers" actually means the Billy Jack scenario. You know, Billy Jack is surrounded by a circle of about 20 bad guys, and they all take terms attacking him (like idiots; they should rush him all at once) and he decks them one at a time (like an idiot; he should run to one point on the circle, deck that one guy and keep going) until finally somebody catches fromo behind with a two by four to the head.

What the "multiple attackers" probably meant was more like this: you and your eight follow bodyguards are out with your employer and a few of his family or servants, and you get attacked by a dozen ruffians. You don't want to get tied down in a long battle, Buddha forbid a groundfight, with one attacker; you want to quickly get between one attacker and your charge, put him down quickly, and move back to protect the person you're supposed to be protecting, or help your buddies.

If you really get attacked by a group of people, you're in a heap of trouble. Groundfighting skills will not be helpful. If you're good at running, and you can get past one guy to the exit, that's the best thing.
I have to disagree with Jason; I think the sprints, distances up to 400 meters or so, are the most useful. If they catch you in that distance, your time in the 5K won't matter. If they haven't caught you in half a click, they'll probably get tired or lose interest.

Jason,

Well, it depends on what you mean by "multiple attackers." If more than one strong, determined, violent attacker moves at you at once, unless you manage to escape (run), you are most likely in for a beating, whatever style you have practiced.

Baguazhang does have specific strategies for more than one opponent, based upon evasion and escape. I'm sure most martial arts have some theories of defending against (escaping from) multiple opponents. Styles that advocate standing and fighting multiple attackers are best avoided.

Groundfighting skills are certainly useful against multiple opponents because they teach you how roll and fall safely, how to stay off the bottom and how to get back up safely and quickly.

This is an interesting question. It surprises me that no one has asked it before. There is another situation that goes hand-in-hand with the question of multiple attackers and that is the question of an attacker or attackers armed with clubs, knives, or other cutting/stabbing weapons. These are situations where the pure grappler is at a distinct advantage as they rely on taking an opponent to the ground and keeping him there. While keeping one on the ground he is open to indefensible attacks from the other opponents. Additionally, it is dangerous to close on an opponent in an attempt to take him to the ground if he has a razor sharp knife in his hand.

As has been suggested, the smart thing to do is to attempt to escape in these instances. You only fight armed/multiple opponents if you have no alternative or you are forced to stand and fight to protect a third party. If you can't escape you should pick up anything that you might use as a weapon to even the odds. If there is nothing at hand then, and only then, should you engage in close hand to hand combat. If you are to be successful in this instance you have to have good strikes, kicks, and good sweeping skills. You must also be very quick.

Strategically speaking you should attempt to engage multiple attackers in a small area, one where it is difficult for more than one to engage you at a time. Barring this, place your back to a wall so none can attack you from behind. If you can sweep one opponent to the ground make sure he doesn't get up. He will try to rise. Fend off the others as best you can then quickly move to the fallen man and kick him with all you have to the most vulnerable spot available. Remember, when facing multiple attackers or attackers armed with stabbing/cutting weapons you are, for all intents and purposes, in a life or death situation. You cannot afford to pull anything. No playing here. You may have to permanently maim or kill one or more opponents. Try to keep one of the opponents between yourself and the other opponents if possible. In fact, this is one time where it is smart for you to initiate the fight. When you see that you have to fight, take the intitiative, attack quickly and with no concern for your opponents. They will not expect you to be the one to initiate the attack. You may well be able to take one or two opponents out before they can even react. You will only survive these multiple attackers if you are well conditioned. You will have to move and strike quickly and constantly. There is no time to stop and catch your breath until you have neutralized all of the attackers.

Also, if there is one among the attackers who is the leader, the one who is egging the others on, the one with the biggest mouth, often the biggest of them, take him out first. The others will often be frightened by seeing their leader go down and will lose heart.

Street punks love to pull knives. Again, get away if you can. If you can't pick up a weapon. It may be a brick, a large rock, or a two foot piece of two by four, anything that takes part of his advantage away from him. The truth is, I'll give you a knife if I have a two foot long piece of two by four or something similar. This is one situation where the guy with the knife surrenders his advantage to you. If you can't find a weapon your primary concern will be, not the stabbing but the slashing aspect. Attack the legs from the knees down with your kicks. While he is off balance try to escape. If that option doesn't become available attack while he is unbalanced, attacking the groin, eyes, throat, or other vulnerable areas. Another option is to attack the hand/arm holding the weapon.

In short, the best style for multiple attackers is one that encompasses all aspects of the martial arts but fight only if you can't get away. Be quick and decisive. I debated whether to write this message because of some of the naysayers and doubting Thomases but I speak from experience. On the street I have faced unarmed multiple attackers three times, armed multiple atackers twice and single opponents with knives twice. I also had a guy pull a .25 automatic on me once. If it hadn't misfired I wouldn't be sitting here writing this. You can't dodge bullets.

Kung Fu Grandad reminisced....

"I debated whether to write this message because of some of the naysayers and doubting Thomases but I speak from experience. On the street I have faced unarmed multiple attackers three times"

Really?

"armed multiple atackers twice and single opponents with knives twice."

Really?

"I also had a guy pull a .25 automatic on me once. If it hadn't misfired I wouldn't be sitting here writing this. You can't dodge bullets."

Really?

I believe you Charlie (has says pinching himself and biting his lip to stop from sniggering, but ending up with that excessive but kinda contorted and controlled diaphragm movement but with no laughter)

"You will only survive these multiple attackers if you are well conditioned."

Another often overlooked important point.

if "sniggering" means 'shitting yourself'
, keep pinching.

Hey Bob fuckwit 2, you'll have to try better than that, by the way I just seen you licence photo on your profile... Does your face hurt, because it's killing me! uglyfuckwit !!!

I hope sniggering has nothing to do with the KKK.... irregardlessly, keep pinching.

"[T]he best style for multiple attackers is one that encompasses all aspects of the martial arts but fight only if you can't get away"

True enough. But dont forget the incredibly banal fact that the best response to multiple attachers is multiple defenders.

Indulging a bit of speculation here, thinking about the historical background of Chinese martial arts as a world of village militias and urban guilds, where interpersonal conflict took place in the political context of allied collectivities inseparably attached to their locality (i.e. where people couldn't count on "getting away" to do much beyond delay resolution of a conflict), I think this might explain something of the content of traditional martial arts, which seem to often emphasize the expectation of fighting in groups, stressing mobility, use of ad hoc weapons, etc. It's probably not a coincidence that traditional martial arts schools take the form of brotherhoods, "We weren't born together, but we'll die together." And if there is anything to this speculation ... then maybe the moral content of martial arts training has a practical application, as it requires a certain level of social skill to be able hold up your end of a brotherhood.

Bob 2 wrote
"I hope sniggering has nothing to do with the KKK.... irregardlessly, keep pinching"

Bob 2 wrote a crypic racist joke which was'nt even funny, what a fuckwit moron

I've seen people like Bob 2 before - but I had to pay an admission...

you should be thanking someone for gettting in here free then.

Jerry-
I disagree! Do you know how far 400m is? That's like 2 blocks. Your right, 5000m is not so much the quick getaway. That's more for multiple cops.

Speculation,

Agreed. I studied the martial arts in Taiwan in the early 1970's. The structure was familial. My teacher, Hsu Hong Chi, when speaking of others in the school would refer to them as my brothers/sisters. The older brother was the one who began training at the school first, not the one who had the most "rank". As students we also looked upon each other as family. At that time there were still rivalries between schools that would sometimes result in little wars. On occasion there were street fights between schools where we did fight together. These were matters of honor. In China "losing face" is a worse fate than dying. Insults are not tolerated well in particular those that refer to family/ancestry. An insult directed at the school would fall in this category.

The misconception held by far too many people is that the Chinese martial arts teach that you only fight if attacked. This is not actually true. They teach that that there are times to fight and times to avoid fighting. If someone calls you a wom ba don (spelling?) it is an insult of the highest order and demands action.

The question here was one with a fixed scenario. Is ba gua zhang the best style for multiple attackers? The assumption is that you have been placed in a situation where you alone must defend against multiple attackers. My earlier post was directed at this scenario.

Fatboy, I'm not the one who said "biting his lip to keep from sniggering".

do therapists keep referring you to other therapists?

"Do you know how far 400m is?

Sure, it's once around the track, takes one minute if you're fast as hell, and leaves you exhausted if you go all out. Look, Jason, in this admittedly farfetched scenario of being attacked by a group and running away, you have to be able to outrun the fastest guy in the group.
Say it's a gang, probably some skinny teenagers in there who can run very fast for 100-200M, but they probably aren't in shape to go too much past that.
First you have to outrun them for the first 10M, then the first 50, and so on. The first priority is not getting caught right away. If you can run all out, and not get caught, for 400M, I think you've gotten away already. Even if anyone is close behind you, they're probably blowing like a beached whale. Guy who can run 400M in a minute, I bet not one in a thousand is going catch him, given a few yards head start. Or one in a hundred anyway.
There was some military regiment that had a line in their song about "we can run like the devil where the ground is level for about 400 yards".

I guess if you get attacked by a group of relentless marathon runners....

Tim, thanks for the correction. I see that because I know squat about groundfighting, I was defining what it is too narrowly. However, that said, the first line of defense in this situation is to not be in this situation. The second line of defense is not to get either knocked down, thrown, or caught in a clinch. If you get to the point of being down and having to make sure you're on top and get up quick, you're already in the very far end of the curve of probability of getting out of this relatively unscathed.

Taiwan, I know nobody on this list probably thinks that aikido has much to offer as a practical method, but they do specifically drill the situation you're talking about, so conceivably that could be very helpful.
I'd still do those 10 440s three times a week, though; I still think that's your best defense.

Fatboy,

Knock off the profanity.

in answer to Bob 2's Therapist rebuttal...

Bob 2 been feeling down for so long that he finally decided to seek the aid of a psychiatrist. He went there, lay on the couch, spilled his guts then waited for the profound wisdom of the psychiatrist to make him feel better.

The psychiatrist asked me a few questions, took some notes then sat thinking in silence for a few minutes with a puzzled look on his face.

Suddenly, he looked up with an expression of delight and said, "Um, I think your problem is low self-esteem. It is very common among losers."

here's what to do;
-don't talk to strangers!(like mom told you.)
-don't be an ••••••• to or stare at anyone!
-stay away from gettos
-carry a gun
-pistol whip till you have to shot
-shot to kill
-drive a hyundai
-wear camo (hide when you can't run anymore)
-don't learn kung fu or listen to jerry
- don't be a fat boy
-and? oh yes ,don't fight multiple attackers!!!
good luck in your survival.