Archive through June 14, 2002

Tim's Discussion Board: Ba Gua Zhang : Seventy Two Hidden Kicks of BaguaZhang: Archive through June 14, 2002
   By tomasz on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 05:01 am: Edit Post

I don't think so that Gong's bagua looks so much different from Yin's bagua, it looks only different from Taiwanese version of Yin bagua

I study Yin style in mailand and i can say that all mailand version of Yin bagua are different from taiwanise.

if we talk about when Gong baotian was exactly born - i have artcile from zhong hua wushu july 1997 when is article which was wrote by guy who intervied Gong familly in his village and date of his births is exactly mentioned as 1871 and any information about practice with Dong

if any of you want to read this article i can send you a scan (but is in chinese), just contact

   By jeff k on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 09:05 am: Edit Post

Not at all, ETB. I like your classmate and you and would not seek to discredit or insult you for a minute. In all sincerity, I only want to bolster my research with hard facts. In this thread alone there is collaborating evidence of Gong's birthdate and teacher from multiple sources. My teacher says 9 years old when Dong passed but I accept the 1871 birthdate as fact. Two of the Taiwanese proponents of Yin style are represented here. Both Liu Yun Chaio and Gong Bao Zhai. Another person who's opinion I completely trust and respect, told me that He Jing Han's is different from ours and looks like Yin style he learned on mainland China. I only see similarities in both our styles and little differences.

I would be very interested in the article you mentioned, Tomasz, and the Chinese should not be a problem if it is not to long. Might shed some light on the evolution of Gong Bao Tien's teaching. You already have my e-mail. If you don't mind, please send it. BTW, if you have a text version, I can deal with the Chinese characters too. Either way. You say it has mentioned informations of Gong's practice with Dong? What does it say?

   By tomasz on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 10:58 am: Edit Post

i wrote "and any information about practice with Dong" - you know i could be wrong but i think that this means that has not info about that Gong practice with Dong but I'm not native speaker and i can be wrong.

ok simple and correct: according to this article Gong never practiced with Dong haichuan.

you people need to know that in gong village people still practice his style and a lot of them has this same surname: Gong

best regards

ps check your mailbox Jeff:)

   By Lincoln Snyder on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:29 am: Edit Post

What province and major city is closest to Gong Village?

   By Lee Hai Hsia on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 03:00 pm: Edit Post

Master Chan learned Imperial Palace Ba Gua from the late Master Wang Zhuang Fei and he learned his Song-style Xing Yi from Master Sau who was the captain of the Shanghai Wushu Team in the 60s and 70s. In the early 1970s, this wushu team visited the U.S. and they did a demonstration at Madison Sq. Garden.

cherrypraxis this is a very small world, I happen to know most of the late master Wang Zhuag Fei Ba Gua students. Mr. David Bond Chan is advertising false claims, he was never a Ba Gua student of the late master Wang Zhuag Fei. Your Sifu claims of song style Xing Yi are also false. Mr. David Bond Chan knowledge of these two systems is a out right lie.

I will vist your school soon.

Lee Hai Hsia

   By jeff k on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 03:48 pm: Edit Post


Eight Trigram, I forgot to reply to your question about the difference you see in other Yin styles. How many different Gong Bao Tien lineage teachers have you seen. I don't see the differences you are talking about except maybe in a richer understanding of bagua principles. I have met with and seen teachers from 2 other distinctive branches and they are both similiar to what I have been taught. can't wait to meet up with you guys and gal later this year.

Tomasz, I did not get the e-mail. Are you sure you put 3 o's in ""

   By cherrypraxis on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 05:37 pm: Edit Post

Hi Tomasz,

I would be interested in getting a copy of the said article. My e-mail:


hey jeff,

like i said, we look forward to your visit.


Lee Hai Sia,

I am not sure if you are aware of this but Mr. Chan had studied with the late Master Wang and his son here in New York two decades ago. May I ask where these students of the late Master are and where they studied? Perchance, are you one of them? My master has tapes of Master Wang with him learning clumsily. But I guess that's not proof, right?

As for Master Sau, you did not even mention why my teacher's claim that he was a student of his is false. Mr. Chan also learned from Master Sau here in New York.

Please let us know ahead of time when you will be coming. We wouldn't want to mistreat our guests...

   By cherrypraxis on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 05:42 pm: Edit Post


Perhaps you'd also like to find and ask "young" Master Wang, Wang Zhuang Fei's son who is about the same age as Mr. Chan. From what I've heard, he's still alive and well in Singapore though he is not teaching Ba Gua...

   By tomasz on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 12:20 am: Edit Post

this artcle is two jpg about 1 MB together (or more i don't remember now). I see that you have a hotmail mailbox and i remember that hotmail have only 1MB mailbox and politics that you ca not send attachment bigger than 0.5 MB.
if you have any another account I will send you there

   By cherrypraxis on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 12:36 am: Edit Post

Hi Tomasz,

I have a few e-mail accounts. I'm not sure about the limits of each one so you can try another one in case the one you picked doesn't allow big file transfers:



   By Lee Hai Hsia on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 02:25 am: Edit Post

There is no need for me to give you notice, for you are but a student. This situation is not of your concern. When I make my appearance there will be little any of you can do. What will happen will happen. This is my last post, tell your sifu I will see him very soon. Thank you.

Lee Hai Hsia

"Teaching without words and work without doing are understood by very few".

   By tomasz on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 10:17 am: Edit Post

HI Lincoln
Gong baotian village is in Shandong province

   By tomasz on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 10:36 am: Edit Post

Hi Cherry
i sent it to your yahoo account

   By jeff k on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 10:49 am: Edit Post

How about me Tomasz???

   By Tom on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 12:11 pm: Edit Post

If my understanding of Cantonese is correct, then "Lee Hai Hsia" translates as something like "little dick". Then again, I can't even order off a Chinese menu, so I could be wrong.

   By Cherry Lou Sy on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 12:19 pm: Edit Post


Sir, I didn't mean that you should inform me personally. Like you said, I am but a student. I meant the school. Do not misunderstand me.
Like my schoolbrother said, you've made our teacher very happy and he looks forward to hearing from you...




   By HiddenPalm on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 01:07 pm: Edit Post

To Little Dick and Chan's students. I'm just kidding. To Lee Hai Hsia and Chan's students. Not that im instigating or anything. If this dispute is just a misunderstanding and all problems are quelled then great. But if not, please do not make this a behind closed door event. It would be nice if the date of Lee's appearance in Chan's school can be posted here. I would love nothing else in this world but to see Chan in action.

It doesnt really matter to me what Chan's lineage is. And a fight wont proove anything. Because im pretty confident that Chan can defeat most if not all masters i've met regardless of his lineage. Meaning if Chan proves to be a better martial artist than Lee then it still doesnt proove his lineage. So I dont care, all I know is that Chan is highly advanced in his martial thinking. Hes simply way to good to be lying anyways.

I studied under Chan for two months a few years ago and observed his classes about 3 or 4 times. In that little time his words and teachings have expanded in my mind and effects me deeply when I learn and when I teach. From that experience I belive hes by far the elite of the elite here in NYC. I have not studied more from him because I cant afford any teacher. I have been training real hard these past months and I plan to train harder for the next 5 months to find a worthy teacher who might find me worthy enough to be taught for free. I have 4 in mind. David Chan is one of them. Perhaps he might take up this responsibility perhaps not. Regardless, I will one day learn under him again.

Cherry, I remember Chan had a picture of one of his master's on the wall, was that Wang Zhuang Fei? I also remember Chan bringing down one of his masters from China for a demo not so long ago, was that also Wang Zhuang Fei?

One of Chan's students wrote somewhere here that he studied under Kenny Gong. Chan never told me that, infact he introduced me to one of his students who studied under Gong and affectionately taunted me that he was my uncle because kenny Gong was the main teacher of my main Teacher. If anything, I always got the impression that they were contemporaries.

You also mentioned that Chan keeps mentioning 72 hidden kicks. I have been looking for a BaGua teacher to teach me these 72 kicks, so I might be your classmate in a few months. The book is found Jarek's site, just email him about it. In my search for this book in chinese book stores in NYC, Ive discovered that they a selling martial instructional VCD's for 4 bucks!!!! They are all in chinese and most are just forms, but they are just 4 dollars!!! Life could not get any better. See thats what i'm always talking about, empowering the people.

One last question, What does David Chan think about Star Wars II Attack of the Clones? Does he like it better than episode one?


   By Li Shu Nien on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 01:33 pm: Edit Post

There is no need to give you notice of our arrival. This is a lineage situation not of your concern. You are just a student, a fly in the wind not yet a dragon.

There will be five of us:

Chou Yu Ng
Sang Wu Kuei
Ma fu hsi
Cheng Han Kao
Lee Hai Hsia

The evidence we will exhibit will be the true ways of my past master. We will deal with your instructor in the old chinese martial society ways.-WUDE He will be discipline.

Li Shu Nien- true inner door disciple of Imperial Palace Ba Gua from the late Master Wang Zhuang Fei.

"Achieve results, but never glory in them"

   By a_little_bird on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 02:13 pm: Edit Post

Big Ron? that you?

BTW, "Lee Hai Hsia" means "you're crazy".