Archive through June 18, 2002

Tim's Discussion Board: Ba Gua Zhang : Seventy Two Hidden Kicks of BaguaZhang: Archive through June 18, 2002
   By Walter T. Joyce Sr. on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 02:27 pm: Edit Post

Wow, a style war unfolding right before my eyes. I wish they would announce the date, NYC is close enough and the melo-drama would make the trip worth while.
Such imagery...mere flys in the wind, not dragons..Stay tuned....

   By Meynard on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 02:47 pm: Edit Post

This is funny. Sounds like Saturday afternoon kung fu theatre. LOL

   By David Bond Chan on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 06:19 pm: Edit Post

To Li Shu Nien, Lee Hai Hsia, and whomever else is involved:

Let me start off by saying that there are many people that know I have spent many years learning from both Master Wang and Master Sau. I don't see the point in arguing this matter. Instead, you should be concerned with how good I am. This is a much more relevant question. There is no need to speculate who I learned from since it's pretty much a fact.

You say you will come see me soon but you won't give a date. Now, you are more than welcome to visit the school but if you don't tell me when, I'm not going to waste my time by sitting around all day waiting for you.

I'd also like to know what your motive is behind all of these false accusations. You still haven't answered any of the questions put forth to you. If you don't wish to answer then stop wasting everyones time.


David Bond Chan

   By Stuart Farkas on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 07:08 pm: Edit Post

Hey Mr. David Bond Chan Why don't you post some pictures of you and and the late Master Wang Zhuang Fei as evidence on this dicussion borad. I know many with like to see them.

I a few Chinese Masters that I acquire about you Mr David Bond Chan told me you have limited knowledge in the internal martial arts. Maybe thats way you have few students.

I think Park Bok Nam is a far better teacher then you, I have vist your class and seen you in action, your not good, you move to external for a Pa Kua Chang man.

   By Cherry Lou Sy on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 11:40 am: Edit Post

Stuart Farkas,

How is Park Bok Nam a "far better teacher" than my Teacher? He has "groups" teaching for him. He's too busy running around the country giving seminars. Oh, and just in case you think I am questioning Mr. Park's martial skills, I am not.

Several months ago, when I was still looking for a Ba Gua school, I had contacted one of his "groups" and I was told that their fee is $110/month for 2 hours/week. What do you learn in 8 hours of sporadic training in a month? What kind of training is that? At least Mr. Chan gives personal attention to each of his students.

And what do you mean that he moves too "external" for a "Pa Kua Chang man"? He has a reputation for being too fast and too powerful and that his movements are not "internal". To prove that it isn't "external", Master has lost over 30 lbs over the past few years. I'm not sure when you visited the school but if you see him now he is barely 150 lbs, 5'6" and, for your information, 60 years old. What kind of external power do you expect from a man with that kind of build and age? I suppose that he is some kind of real-life incarnation of Superman that he can still move like that. If he didn't have that kind of internal training/power, he wouldn't be able to move the way he moves considering his age.

Why does he have few students? It's probably because he doesn't advertise. Most of us in the school had a hell of a time looking for him, some for months and others for years; and most of us are thankful that we found him.

If you've found a better situation for yourself, good and fine. Wonderful, in fact. More power to you...

   By stc on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 11:44 am: Edit Post


i can see that there are 72 obvious asses in ba gua but does all this mean there are/are not 72 hidden kicks??

peace to you all


   By David Bliss on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 11:51 am: Edit Post

Mr. Farkas,
If you are so interested in proof, or a picture, of my Teacher's studies with Master Wang then why don't you come down to the school and ask him yourself. You have been to the school before so I'm sure you know where it is. There is no need to post anything here since we are not trying to advertise. I think the people making the accusations should first prove their case. Anyone can go around claiming this or that but without any evidence it's basically just bs.
So, I guess if you are interested enough we should be expecting you.
One more thing, if you had actually taken the time to read this entire thread you would have seen that my classmate had mentioned video tapes of my Teacher studying with Master Wang. Perhaps you weren't able to catch that point though, so I will reiterate it again. My Teacher has videos of him learning with Master Wang. If you'd like to see them, as I said before, please come to the school and ask my Teacher yourself. Thank you.

   By Beginner Palms on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 03:26 pm: Edit Post

8 Things a "Smart" student would do:

1.Try to keep the class as small as possible, so he/she can continue recieving as much personal attention as possible.

2.Ask experts directly for opinions and insights on a given matter as opposed to posting questions on a public board, where identities can not be verified.

3. Only advertise the master to personal friends whose reputation you can vouch for and whose character or lack of it would not reflect your own.

4. Keep your technology yours, Keep your teachers private conversations to yourself. This INCLUDES not repeating his opinions or insights publicly without FIRST, getting his permission!

5. Let others say and do what they want if it doesnt effect your Master or school and especially if it was not directed towards them in the first place.

6. Dont be quick to open your mouth!
THINK before you ACT!

7. Use your Wisdom Mind to answer questions and leave your emotional mind out of the picture.

8. Spend your time training Bagua in the manner you've been coached, so if all this fails you may possibly have the skill to shut others up physically.

   By just looking on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 06:16 pm: Edit Post

Beginner Palm i could not have said it better
myself. This is to David Chan's students.
First you are lucky to find such a great Teacher.
Second you all should keep quiet on these
boards and try to grasp what this great teacher
is willing to teach. Their are few teacher's
with Mr. chan's ability who are willing to share
and develope students. Even today with everything
that's out there it is difficult to get in with
a teacher of high skill. Be happy that you are
lucky enough to find a teacher of Mr. Chan's

   By jeff k on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 06:40 pm: Edit Post


   By Sifu Scott O Dell on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 09:52 pm: Edit Post


Before you talk out of your mouth correct what you are saying becasue last time I checked you were the one bragging about how talented you master is, and from my past experiences he is far from beautiful in characteristic, physical, and verbal actions. That is just my opinion. Now my Master Park Nam we shouldn't even have to get childish on you because your paraprofessional is still on level one, and as long as he has been "So called" training his skills have not increased and never will he be able to pass our regents.

Your Sifu's fee is 120$ a month and when I was visiting he tried to charge me 40$ for an hour of commercial Pa kua Chang that you'd only see on Bruce Lee movie advertisments. If your Sifu has so much evidence why can't you just post it on the board instead of trying to hide behind the advertisement excuse. We are not rushing you just get your stuff together.

As for you, David Bliss your nothing but a big mouthed lier that talks on all the martial arts discussion boards not actually knowing the defenition of them. So before you try to read a dictionary learn your alphabet and the sound of the words matter of fact since your Sifu charges so much money here is a telegram from us with our deepest sympathy " David Chan learn your English becasue you know your Sifu did not write that post. This goes for you also David Bliss have your Sifu explain to you the defenitions of the gossip in which you speak on, and if he can't teach you how about makin us some money and purchase one of our tapes.
Thankyou for your cooperation. Their was no intention to hurt your feelings, but sometimes we just have to put you in your place. So the next time you step out ofline remeber who taught you Kung Fu. Who? Us.

   By a_little_bird on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 12:58 am: Edit Post

Well, that was... incohereant.

   By Big Goose Dummy on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 02:23 am: Edit Post

The skills, abilities and qualities which make a great martial artist have made there way down through the centuries and no one line, style, family..., can lay claim to having a 'formula' to produce one. Like the greats in any field, what separates them from the rest is evasive and elusive and isn't easily subjected to investigation or definition. It certainly is not constant or consistent from generation to generation.

With that in mind, I doubt very much whether anyone on this, or any other board for that matter, who claims greatness for their teacher or style, is expressing anything more than an opinion, rather than an unmitigated fact. Opinions vary and so do individual talents.

May be better to follow the advice of the daoists and simply try to do the best you can according to your present knowledge and abilities and don't worry about others. What is beyond the facts as you know them, and your own destiny is not possible and is mere speculation. What can a five year old tell you about old age?

Best wishes in your endeavours.

   By Tim on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 04:46 pm: Edit Post

If I could make a point related to the original topic:

The book in question, by Zhao Zhen Zhong is titled "Ba Gua Qi Shi Er An Tui," which translates as "Ba Gua's Seventy Two Hidden Legs" (not kicks). The book includes seventy-two techniqes which involve leg attacks, including kicks, knees, stomps, sweeps, leg hooking techniques, trips and techniques which involve bumping with the hips, all in conjunction with hand techniques.

I wanted to elaborate a little because I got the impression some of the posters thought the book was only about kicking, and that there were actually seventy two types of kicks in the Jiang Rong Qiao system.

   By jeff k on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 05:30 pm: Edit Post

But that's what I said in the first place, LOL :D:D:D

   By jeff k on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 05:31 pm: Edit Post

Thanks for bringing it back to the topic. :)

   By Right... on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 10:50 pm: Edit Post

I think you may have our school confused with another. We don't have a 40 Dollar fee for anything. Perhaps you visited Mr. David Lin's school. He charges a fee for the first class. Anyway, nice post...

   By Sifu Scott O Dell on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 12:34 am: Edit Post

It was your teacher David Bond Chan. What your sifu teaching is not authentic Pa kua Chang, David Bond Chan is a big fake just like David Lin. Maybe they are brothers.

Thank god I found a true Master of Pa kua Chang like Park Bok Nam who is teaching a fighting method from a real authentic Pa Kua Chang lineage.

   By robT on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 06:34 am: Edit Post

just a side note and apropos nothing much

If one has found a master, one is not sifu.

Only when the "master" designates as such, or when the master passes away and leaves one holding the lineage, then one is sifu.

Sifu is what other people call you, out of respect, not a title one proclaims for oneself.

Directed at more than one person in the charade above

   By Tom on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 12:11 pm: Edit Post

There is no Scott O Dell teaching for or representing Park Bok Nam, as a "Sifu" or otherwise. Nice try, troll.