Hello from Australia,recently taugth a tendon strentching circle form.My teacher thinks it came from Yin style but he is not sure(Yes he is Asian born just not real concerned about lineage)Have been practiseing it for a while and its feeling good but was interested in what you guys might think of it,any coments if you have come across it before etc.Little about me study TCM and have done a bit of time with EM,but moved away from him in perference of yiquan.My yiquan teacher also has a grounding in circle walking for medition/qigong,I have also learnt the single and doulble,however he stresses it only for qigong as he admits to not knowing the full system(bagua).Apart from what I have learnt Bagua is thin on the ground down here.Personally I find zhan zhuang and circlewalking a perfect way to start each day.
Thanks
Doug

Tendon stretching?

Since tendons are almost entirely composed of inelastic collagen fibers (making them stronger than both bones and muscles), tendons are the most inelastic connective tissue in the body. They function to attach the muscle to the bone.

According to a study by Verzar in 1963, a weight of 10,000 times the molecular weight of the tendon will not stretch the tendon. This means that tendons CANNOT be stretched. Placing a major overload stess on a tendon will cause either the attached muscle to rupture, or the tendon will tear off the bone. Tendons can be damaged under conditions of chronic stress (postural misalignment, overuse or excessive tightness in the muscle of the tendon).

It is therefore important to stretch the muscles without overloading the tendons. When you feel the stretch, it should be in the center of the relevant muscle belly and not at the points of attachment of the muscle to the bone.

Cheers for infor,just saying what I have been told it was,have you come across these forms at all?The moves are not dynamic at all just diferent hand postures not disimular to qigong circle walking forms.

aren't there some tendon loading exercises?

Hello Doug,
I think Sum Guye is referring to what you are might be practicing. There are exercises (very often resembling what we think of as static "stretches" ) that are designed to load the tendons and strengthen the connective tissue.

"what you are might be practicing"

keepin' it real... cause Ima thug

Thanks for the answers,off the topic abit,what do you all think of J.Crandell translations of Bagua books.I was thinking of purchasing one as a reference book.Any publications you gents would recommend on principles behind bagua?
Thanks

Doug,
Since there are very few good books in English on Ba Gua Zhang, I think Joe's books are a useful resource.

Bob #2
I call it the "past perfect retro-progressive tense."

Solid.

Doug,

I've bought and will buy a handful of books from J. Crandall.
For me, it's the fact that it's published here in North America which makes it convenient ( I can read Mandarin, so that's not a major factor ). At least one volume is, in fact, a collection of journal articles from the eighties.
I can only imagine how hard it'd be to find those today unless you know a friend in China who's knowledgeable about CMA.
As for the quality of the translation, I found it hard initally. This could be a disputable point, however, since while one reader may prefer a smooth colloquial English translation, another might actually prefer a style which closely follows the original Mandarin text, so that he'll understand the original idea better.
If you're getting only one book, I recommend contacting him for info first before you make your selection since the contents vary a lot ( for the obvious reason of Bagua being very diverse across different lineages ) from volume to volume.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Kohei,I am presently studying Chinese,but are by no means up to reading it untranslated.However I take your point about the different stlyes in translation alone,my chinese lit Prof often refers to the translator rather than the author in regards to overall meaning.More reason to continue with the language really.

Tim,

I would like to get back to the original topic of tendon stretching. You have made the statement that "internal power comes from the tendons." I practice the Gao style, so the Ji Ben Shou Fa movements are very important to me. You said that they will teach me how to have power and connect with the opponent. Also, "make you equally flexible and strong through the exact movements needed for martial arts."

When I first began practicing the Ji Ben Shou Fa set, I was under the impression that I was actually stretching the tendons. After reading your previous message, I quickly gave up that idea. However, what about other types of tissues, like ligaments? Would you please explain in more detail what is supposed to be happening during the practice of these movements? I am sure the information will apply to the silk-reeling exercises of Tai Ji or the Wu Xing Nei Gong set of Xing Yi, as well.

Thanks,
Steven

Steven,
The Basic Hand Methods are designed to teach the student how to control movement with the intent and align the body so that power comes more from the elasticity of the connective tissue than muscle force. Many of the movements are done at near maximum extension so that the alignment of the frame is maintained without 'slack.' Improving muscle endurance and learning to move in the correct rhythm is also a goal of this type of training.

Tim,

Is it possible to maintain the feeling of no 'slack,' without actually having an extended frame? Is that the ultimate goal?

Thanks,
Steven

Yes. Yes. Ultimatly, the alignment follows the intent.