Tim,

I understand you trained with Sun Jianyun (RIP) and know the family history pretty well. I wonder if you wouldn't mind sharing some information with me.

I am interested in finding out more about the fate of the eldest son of Sun Lutang, Sun Xingyi (? what are the characters? He is barely mentioned on Chinese web in searches I have done so far). Did he have any disciples, and are any of that line still around? I know he died at about 30, but that's it!

Other than him, the middle son, Cunzhou... which are his disciples still around? Do you know of their reputation?
Please e-mail me or PM me on emptyflower (Martin) if you prefer. I understand discression.

I really believe Sun had something special and am keen to look into his legacy more closely... and I will get the book when I can ;)

Many thanks.

M.

Don't mean to pester, but.... No ideas?

M.

Hi Martin,

I don't know much more about Sun's sons than you wrote above.

Sun Cunzhou was, by most accounts a very good martial artist. I have never heard about any students of his.

Sun Xingyi apparently was never very interested in practicing the martial arts.

The third son, Sun Huanmin practiced with his father but died from injuries sustained while practicing gymnastics in his mid-twenties.

Hi Tim,

Well, thank you for sharing what you do know about his sons.
I don't remember why, but I had a feeling Xingyi DID in fact practise.. hmm, will have to check.
I will do some more research where I can - this will be easier when I get back to Shanghai - and let you know if i come up with anything significant.
I rather suspect, though, that the majority of Sun's skill, as might have been passed on by him, is lost. Sad.

BTW there is a guy in Shanghai, who is perhaps the best there at tuishou and claims he is the only one to have Sun's skill now. Unfortunately, he is not telling the truth (this is very common!). His tuishou was learnt from a Yang style guy, my 'elder brother's' grand-teacher. I don't know what his fighting is like.

Best.

M.

Not sure if anybody ever checks this board, but I thought I would add a little note.

Sun Lutang's best student was not one of his family members, but was Li Tianyee. Master Li's best student was Niu Shengqian. Niu is currently 68 years old and lives in Beijing. He was slightly ousted from the wushu domain after he wrote several articles slamming the Chinese government and many famous taijiquan teachers for prostituting taijiquan.

I am not sure if he is as good as his masters, but he is very good.

Do you mean Li Tianji?

hey zhou yi, do you mind if i ask you how to get in contact with mr. niu? i'd love to meet him.

by the way, there is someone else in beijing who is under sun's lineage who is also very good. don't know his name but my mate trains with him.

Hi,

what about Sun Shurong of Beijing, the doughter of Sun Cunzhou (Sun Lu Tang´s Son). She teaches also.

Pit

Master Sun Shurong died May 22, 2005. She was 86 years old.

Peter

Ooops... yeah I meant Li Tianji. Li Tianji said his newphew (Li Duyin) was the best at Taijiquan, but that Niu Sheng Xian was his best Xingyi/Bagua student. I know they trained together for 37 years. Still, have no idea where Niu is these days. Last I heard, he stopped taking students.

on another note, i talked with my friend's teacher, who is under sun cun zhou's line, and he says sun xingyi was given to sun lutang's older brother to raise because he had no sons. he didn't practice the martial arts.

sun cun zhou actually still has living disciples in beijing, the youngest is about 50 years old. they're not very public, however.

zhou yi, do you have any other information about niu shengxian? i'd love to talk to him on an informal note about his experiences and views.

cheers