Question for Tim in re to Yang form and fighting.

Tim's Discussion Board: Tai Ji Quan : Question for Tim in re to Yang form and fighting.
   By Rich on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 08:03 pm: Edit Post

Tim,
I was just sitting here thinking... rare, but it does happen.

I had a judge sometime back tell me my Yang form was incorrect and I humbly said thanks for your comments and pondered.

My question. When you are doing ward off, are you/do you bring the rear leg/foot forward(follow step) or do you complete your ward off and the posture end in a front bow stance?

I know when the form is done slowly it appears that the rear foot stays stationary, like a static posture for a moment. However, I explained that if you fought that way, that would leave your groin open and he told me I was wrong... before I continue.

What is your opinion, because I know you value the forms/art from a fighting perspective, not what is "cool looking" for competitions.


   By Tim on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 02:42 am: Edit Post

Rich,
It's hard to answer your question because there are like a zillion variations of the Yang form now.

In the Medium Frame Yang form I learned, there is a follow step in some parts of the from after Ward off. In the Large Frame Yang form, there was not.

Since the form is constructed around it's application, it is necessary to understand the particular application for the form in each case before the correctness of the footwork can be determined.


   By stan (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 11:11 am: Edit Post

Rich,

As a former sometime competitor, judges may not know how to judge and when they do, it is done according to Beijing Wushu rules. To win, you follow those rules. Yes, they are absurd.

Tim's response is on the ball. Which Yang style?
Manqing? one of the Beijing forms (42, 48, 40, etc)? Competitions forms are for show and therefore the "flowery stuff' makes people feel nice and fuzzy.

Your form may be structurally correct but if it does not fit the wushutaijquan Beijing rules, well, you know the outcome!


   By Rich on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 02:49 pm: Edit Post

Tim,
Thanks. I know it is difficult to visualize what someone is typing. I learned traditional long form(medium frame)and it is not pretty to look at, but I learned from a "non flashy" teacher, which is what I wanted.

I think that does not help at the tournaments.

thanks again.


   By Rich on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 02:52 pm: Edit Post

Stan,
You are 100% correct... One time I did my form with a little more "fluff" and really waved my hands around, and I got second place in Traditional Yang division. I kind of laughed and thought... did I just sell out.

Either way. It is funny how people view arts.


   By JAMIE (Unregistered Guest) on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 09:59 pm: Edit Post

Rich:
Yang 108 does have a few variations and cultivating what is most comfortable and applicable for your current intent for doing TaiJiQuan?...For: defense, the judge, self cultivation, spirituality? I give you permission to make your own decisions from what you've been taught and what you believe no matter what Bejing or the Judge or anybody (save you teacher) may tell you. And even in my comment take what may be useful and forget the rest.
My understanding is Zheng ManQing adjusted his back foot while turning the waist and shifting the weight, photos of Chen WeiMing shows his foot forward with the back leg bent a very good forward bow, Yang ChenFu is clear in his writings the back leg is strait and all the weight is in the front (not much for the 70/30 idea?) with no weight in the back, his foot is not always forward-and it seems at times maybe not even in a forward bow while in ward-off.
None of them have a follow step, in the sense of after the pose is struck and the weight is shifted-then the foot is adjusted.
Dong YingJie uses follow steps (stepping-up) in his fast form. This might not be what you mean though.
For the most part I believe ward of is completed with a forward bow back leg slightly bent, the warding sides hip square, not open, to facilitate structural isometric strength and to prevent damage to the back knee. My opinion is when the posture in the form is completed the coordinated shifting of the weight and turning of the waist then the feet should be rooted, and the momentum carried to the next complete posture.
If follow foot means: turning the foot forward to prevent twisting of the knee- after the posture is completed then; when I do this, I call it an adjustment. I feel these adjustments are not the best flow of the form-and probably loose style points in a dance competition, but save my knee for walking through life.
Stepping-up? In the Dong YingJie sense-Well this could be useful a type of fa-jing drill.
I separate those moves from the form, I like the smooth even tempo, for timing and rhythm but I believe all of this is what my TaiJiQuan is and is what is currently best for me.
What you do is your art, and what I currently do will change. So Take-It-Easy and have fun íVunless you have other plans.
:-)
With care and all my best intentions
JAMIE


   By Hans-Peter Geiss on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 04:58 am: Edit Post

Hi,

the Yang style small frame form makes frequent use of the follow-step. The name used for the stance, where the now-empty backfoot is taken beside the full front foot is "lian zhi bu".

Greetings
Peter


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