Which one gives you the best workout and reinforces your body method training the best?

Obviously no tai ji form is a strenuous workout. I feel like the Sun Ta Ji form has stances that are too high.

Was Sun Lu Tang a lazy bum? Just kidding. I do notice his high debacles in sun tai ji and sun ba gua. I'm sure hr did a •••• load of supplemental exercises to maintain whatever stength/power he had. The Chen forms seem like they would provide better overall exercsise.

Ha, are you seriously asking TIm a "which art is better" question?

And did you just call sun lu tang a lazy bastard because you watched a few you tube videos of sun style tai chi?

With all of the questions you ask, you seem to already have all the answers...

Let me guess your age timber.. 23

I threw out another post to try to generate a response and hey look it worked.

Is there something wrong with having an opinion? I was asking Tim for his opinion.

Don't you remember the trolling war you and I had awhile back which prompted you to put up a video in your blue judo gi? I'm older than you.

Also, Robert, i do have a point of reference on the subject. I study Yang Style, in own Tim's Sun tai ji DVDs, and I study zhao bao tai ji.

The question might seem a bit silly since no form can condition you physically as we'll as anaerobic exercise. In terms of light basic exercise I feel like the Chen forms offer more in that department due simply to their lower stances. Chen tai ji reminds me of hung kuen a little.

Of all the TJQ forms I've studied, the Chen style Zhao Bao form is physically the most difficult.

All styles forms reinforce their particular body method.

Thank, Tim. That form combined with the exercises is really good exercise.

Can you recommend any good books on zb tai ji?

Lmao, Timber...

Everything thing I have seen and read by Sun he believes you practice martial arts for fighting (although do provide health benefits) and to use supplemental exercises for strength and flexibility training?

For example low stances will improve strength in the legs, but are not practical in a real fight.

Having greater strength than your opponent will help you in fighting. By that logic having strong legs whether its through stances, squats, etc is important. I think Sun would agree.

You don't move slowly in fighting either so technically by your logic people skills by practice the form slow or at all. Stands have always been for training and not for fighting. I will say that some throws will need a longer deeper stance than others.

Timber,

I suggest you read Suns material and you will see I am only sharing what I have read in much of Suns writings, you brought it up. Most forms of Taiji for example(except Sun) have a form for strength building and different ones for fight training.

Also there are always exceptions and fighting has many levels, but mostly you would not be in a low or wide stance.

Timber,both Sun Lutang and Sun Cunzhou practiced bagua circle walking with a 40lb child hanging from their outstretched arms for up to an hour at a time.Try it with a 16kg kettlebell hanging from your arms for around five minutes,its very tough.These guys did some very serious conditioning,even when they were older and I imagine this is what made them competent fighters.

really? I've never heard that one.

Shane

Walking around with a 40 pound child will not make you a good fighter. Walk the circle for the next month with a 40 pound weight and then enter an ameteur fight. You crazy.

I don't disagree that they did heavy conditioning.

Maybe Sun did his form differently throughout his life with lower stances when he was younger. When he finally passed it in maybe he was too old for low stances. Tim, is there any evidence to support this?

frankly, the fear factor alone would win fights.
I would not want to tangle with a guy who hung children and left their corpses dangling from his arms.

Like Black Beard- no one really knew if he was tough or not. Some 6'4" guy walks on to your ship with his beard braids ablaze, you give up.

Bob#2

As far as I know, and from what Sun's family taught me, the way the traditional form is taught now is the way it was always practiced.

In general Sun Lutang believed in practicing form movements the same way the movements would be used in actual fighting application. In his Taijiquan form, techniques that are used in higher stances are practiced in higher stances, techniques that are applied in lower stances are practiced in lower stances. Logical no?

I've never heard of Sun walking the circle with a child hanging from his arms. It makes no sense at all, it's a funny image though!

He was truly a master if he could get a 40lb child to do ANYTHING for an hour.

That story of Sun walking the circle with a 40 pound child in his fully outstretched arms is compete nonesense. Post a pic as proof. You can't hold a heavy object in your arms when they're fully outstretched. Would you hold your own child like that? The fact that people believe stories such as these drives me nuts.

Timber,just because you can't hold a 40lb child on your outstretched arm it dosen't mean that people such as Sun Lutang couldn't.The palms face up and elbows sinks.If you kept the palms down I would agree that it is impossible.I should imagine the kids treated it as a game,same as some western parents swing their kids around with a "leg and a wing".

The story came from my teacher's wife who was a friend of Sun Jianynu.She is Chinese and from Beijing so I doubt if there was any misunderstanding due to different dialects.

Arms stretched out to me means stretched all the way out with no bend in the elbow. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

Please provide visual evidence of Sun doing this. Thanks.

phoenix

It was said of all the palm changes she enjoyed the phoenix the most

+1 Martin!

Finally! Definitive evidence that Sun carried around children while walking the circle.

I think we need to read between the lines here. Once I heard of skmeone telling a story of Cheng using his ba gua "for real". The story starts with Cheng trying to get home before the walls to his city/town closed. He used his "ba gua" step to get jnsode just as the gate was closing. Basically, he was walking really fast which anyone can do.

Maybe Sun had hundreds of illegitimate children with prostitutes and other women and he had to help care for the children. Maybe he was carrying his daughter around whispering in her ear, "One day you will do as I do. Father to son. And then fsther to son. That is the knowledge is passed on." At this point his 40 pound 9 year old daughter informs him that she's a girl. Sun just ignores her and keeps whispering "father to son, father to son".

Timber... Go home, you're drunk.

I can and have carried my 40lb child with out stretched arms, but I can promise you that none of my martial arts ability, as limited as it may be, came from it.

So the wagers are....
Timber is a 50 pound overweight 40 something living at home with mom in the basement with an internet connection, or.....

Timber is a 50 pound overweight teen living at home with mom in the basement with an internet connection.

Place your bets! LOL!

You're just mad because Chael Sonnen is famous and you're not.