Chen Zhuo Zhen?

Tim's Discussion Board: Tai Ji Quan : Chen Zhuo Zhen?
   By Jon Nicklin on Thursday, March 08, 2001 - 08:38 pm: Edit Post

Hi Tim,
I was wondering if you could tell me a bit more about Chen Zhuo Zhen and the 'old Yang' style he taught you. Who did he learn it from? How does what he taught you compare with, say, what Yang Zhenduo teaches in terms of form, push hands, etc..?


   By Tim on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 04:00 pm: Edit Post

Chen Zhuo Zhen studied an art called Xu Xi Dao (an "internal" variation of the Southern White Crane)from childhood with a former Buddhist monk named Huang Lao Yang. Later,after moving to Taipei, he studied Xing Yi Quan and the Medium Frame Old Yang Tai Ji Quan form with Cao Lian Fang, a famous martial artist originally from Northern China. Mr. Cao studied Tai Ji Quan with Yang Shao Hou. The Medium Frame follows the same basic sequence as Yang Chen Pu's ( and Yang Zhen Duo's) form, but the movements are more compact, and there is alot more advancing footwork. Some of the movements ('White Crane Cools its Wings' for example) are identical to the modern Wu Jian Quan form. The emphasis of the movements is on fighting application. The push hands drills we practiced were done with the weight of the whole body behind the movements, the emphasis was on becoming 'heavy' rather than having a light touch.

   By Jon Nicklin on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 05:49 pm: Edit Post

Thanks for the info Tim! When you say Cao Lianfang was famous, do you mean on Taiwan or on the mainland? Also, when you say he (Cao Lianfang) 'studied' with Yang Shao-hou, are we talking discipleship here? Because in most treatments of Yang family history that I've read, normally it just says "and he didn't have many disciples because he was so harsh", and that's it!:-) It's strange, the more I ask around, the more people I find studied with him - see the "Hsiung Yang-ho" thread on this very board for example. Anyway, thanks once again.

   By Tim on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 02:40 am: Edit Post

Cao Lian Fang became famous in Shanghai as a young man when he worked as a security guard with his Xing Yi Quan teacher Jin Yun Ting. They got into a fight with a group of gangsters and managed to beat them all while unarmed. Apparently, it was fairly big news at the time. Mr. Cao went to Taiwan after the war. He was well known in martial arts circles in Taiwan but shunned publicity. He taught until he was very old. I've no idea how long Mr. Cao studied with the Yangs, or what their relationship was.

   By Jon Nicklin on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 05:45 pm: Edit Post

Thanks Tim! :) As you can see, I am trying to ferret out students of Yang Shao-hou. Your board has been invaluable for this. Thanks once again.

   By stan on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 12:14 pm: Edit Post

Professor Ho Chikwang (now deceased) supposedly studied with Yang ShaoHu. Teacher Ho used to teach in Evanston,IL and I studied with him for 6 months (82?/83?). The frame of taiji was odd compared to Chengfu/Zhenduo's frame. At that time all others variations of taiji was unknown but he did have some students who he taught the form to such as one Tuey Staples (now in St Loius, MO).
Maybe he can provide additional information.

   By Mark Mondrone on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 06:49 pm: Edit Post

Hi Tim, Erle Montaigue teaches a form that he says came from Yang Shou-hou. Have you had a chance to see what it looked like? If you did, is it similar to what you were taught? Thanks, Mark

   By Shane on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 07:21 pm: Edit Post

I've seen Erle demonstrate his laughably horrible versions of several Tai Ji forms. I think the guy is a cancer to IMAs and should be irradiated

I would like to have his knowledge of marketing.
Getting as far as he has with so little knowledge is a friggin miracle.

   By Tim on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 03:45 am: Edit Post

Hi Mark,
I am not familiar with the form that Earle teaches.

   By Brad on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 05:56 am: Edit Post

Ah, the dulcet strains of another insightful EM comment.

Credibility comes down to touch in IMA. Yang Lu-Chan was illiterate, but who gives? Talk is cheap in either case.

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