Sun Style Taijiquan and Symmetry

Tim's Discussion Board: Tai Ji Quan : Sun Style Taijiquan and Symmetry
   By Justin Harris on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 12:01 am: Edit Post

This question has always bugged me about most Taijiquan forms. Are they supposed to be practiced in both right and left styles? Liang Tung-Tsai said yes, Cheng Man-ching said no. I am curious about the Sun Style specifically but any information would be appreciated.


   By Michael Andre Babin on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 07:08 am: Edit Post

If you do a taijiquan solo form regularly, it's not a bad idea to practise it symmetrically to avoid wearing out one side of the body as most solo forms tend to favour one side. This means alternating your practise on different days: starting to the left on Monday, starting to the right on Tuesday, etc.

On the other hand, well-designed forms with a strong martial usage don't need to be practised that way as the idea seems to be to reinforce martial applications done with your strong side.

I suppose that this also implies that you find and train in such a form that was created by a "rightie" if you are a "rightie"and vice-vera.

There's a lot of difference of opinion on this issue among taiji players and teachers. Some will tell their students to not bother practising the form(s) on the other side for Chinese medicine reasons; others will say to the more experienced student to teach themselves the mirror-image version of the form as a way of reinforcing their understanding of the technical side of the postures; others will say don't bother and just focus on the 'normal' form; and a few, will say "that's a different class, pay me and I'll teach you."


   By Jerry (Unregistered Guest) on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 11:41 am: Edit Post

Short of learning and practicing entire forms on the opposite side, what you can do is identify individual movements that you would use a lot, or that you feel weak on, and practice those particular movements on both sides. You can usually figure out a transitional move or two so that you can do the technique alternating sides, or do one side over and over in a line. For instance, you could do Grasp Bird's Tail on the left, go to a transitional holding-the-ball posture, Grasp Bird's Tail on right, repeat as needed.

Sun style lends itself to mirror-image practice very well because it's divided up into short sections (between kai-he's). You don't have to practice the entire form on the other side, though you could; you can just pick out the sections you want to work on and mirror-image those. For example, you could work on Single Whip/White Crane for a while, or the opening with Lazy Tie Coat, so that you get used to those bread-and-butter (rice and tofu?) moves on both sides.


   By Jerry (Unregistered Guest) on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 11:58 am: Edit Post

If you think there's some reason not to practice in reverse, like you'll age too fast if you flow your qi backwards, that's a personal belief; you have to decide for yourself. From an exercise point of view, symmetry seems like it might be a good idea.

For martial applications, I think it would depend on how you're going to fight. If you're always going to fight strong-side forward, you have less need to do all the techniques on both sides; you just need an answer for any common attack. If the guy punches right or punches left, you don't have to use the same technique on each side to counter, just so you have a response for each attack.

If, otoh, you're going to change your footwork and always fight open stance, or always closed stance, then you need to be able to do everything on each side.


Short of learning and practicing entire forms on the opposite side, what you can do is identify individual movements that you would use a lot, or that you feel weak on, and practice those particular movements on both sides. You can usually figure out a transitional move or two so that you can do the technique alternating sides, or do one side over and over in a line. For instance, you could do Grasp Bird's Tail on the left, go to a transitional holding-the-ball posture, Grasp Bird's Tail on right, repeat as needed.

Sun style lends itself to mirror-image practice very well because it's divided up into short sections (between kai-he's). You don't have to practice the entire form on the other side, though you could; you can just pick out the sections you want to work on and mirror-image those. For example, if you just practice the first couple of kai-he's worth on the mirror side, you're practicing the most bread-and-butter (rice and tofu?) moves: Lazy Tie Coat, Single Whip, White Crane, Raise Hands.


   By Justin Harris on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 06:40 pm: Edit Post

Truth be told I think its a good idea to practice on both sides. I mean its not that difficult learning the form on the other side after you've gotten fairly proficient with it on the other. I mean I really don't think my qi is going to flow in reverse and destroy me or anything outlandish like that. It would just make sense to me to practice symmetrically especially considering that Xing Yi and Bagua are also practiced that way and well as everyone says Sun Style is derived from Xingyi, Taiji, and Bagua.


   By D. Borg (Unregistered Guest) on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 07:35 pm: Edit Post

The competition (72) form stress both sides more equal than Sun Lutangs original form. There you do Lan Zha Yi in both directions.

But I dont think its worth trying to become equally good in both sides. We are just not made that way, so one side will always dominate. I believe that is also the natural reason why TJQ-forms stress the two sides different.


   By Bob #2 on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 10:05 pm: Edit Post

I think Jerry just figured out why left-handed people age more quickly than right-handed people and why ambidextreous people don't age at all.


   By Harry Milner (Unregistered Guest) on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 10:35 pm: Edit Post

A good question has been raised. As already mentioned the Competition form has movements for the most part done on both left and right sides. Sun Lu Tang was a very accomplished Martial Arts Master way before he invented Sun Style Tai Chi. It was not a problem for him to do either side as he was already ambidextreous. My teacher made me practice the competition form first to aquire this skill. He used to say left handed technique is for defense against right handed people and right handed technique is for defense against left handed people, if you only learn to fight using one half of your body you have learned half a martial art. When I learned the original form my teacher suggested I stop practicing the other and concentrate on the original. The combative techniques and practical applications made much more sense when doing the original form and the movements became much more compact for combative reasons. I also found the health benefits of doing the original form as opposed to the competition form increase dramatically. I see benefits in both forms when done at the right time in your training for different reasons.


   By Jerry (Unregistered Guest) on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 11:54 am: Edit Post

Bob#2: I think Jerry just figured out why left-handed people age more quickly than right-handed people and why ambidextreous people don't age at all.

Those are interesting facts, Bob. I wasn't aware of them. Actually I think reverse chi flow is responsible for itching. Chi backwards, itch, you see?


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