hey this is chris(the guy still stuck in fresno)
hey tim i was wondering what the tassles on my tai chi sword are for? it seems like if i swing the just "right" i can git the tassle to stand straight out, i was wondering if this is good, bad or just not important. thanx

hey by the by if any one knows of any rooms opeing up for rent in the aria please please pass the word along. thanx alot!

It just means that your sword is getting excited with all the swinging.

Hey Chris,
Some say the tassels on the swords were used to confuse the enemy, some say they are just for show.

Word's out on finding you a place,

Tim

Thanx tim, and a big thanx to dogbrouthers stick fighting champion meynard for his exspert coments.

Though I haven't been taught the use of tassels in taijiquan, it was stated to confuse the enemy I have found that it is a perfect training tool to help control aimless lack of control. If you train incorrectly you will find the tassel continuously controlling the wrist (my own) and getitng you wrapped up.

Perhaps originally a cloth to clean off blood...?

If they were anal enough to clean blood off of the blade don't you think they'd be grossed out by, and even distracted by, a bloddy rag swinging about them with warm, wet, sticky, clotting blood all over it?

I was told that if the sword work is done smoothly and correctly the tassles would arrive (in space) exactly where the blade would arrive, never getting tangled and never stopping like water or thin gravey.

Perhaps originally a cloth to polish door knobs with or floss with.

The blood idea may not be completely wrong...

I know that for spear the reason the frilly stuff by the spear head was to help absorb blood to keep it from running down the whole spear making it slippery and such.

Perhaps it had a purpose of the like for the tai chi sword as well.

Hi dp,
I don't know what those tassles are for (I've heard some different reasons -- all already expressed in postings above); yet I don't see it as being for keeping blood from running down the sword -- after all, the tassles hang from the end of the handle (meaning that any blood on the sword would have to pass by the hand on the way to the tassle). A tassle is a great distraction (look how just trying to figure out its purpose has distracted us from doing other things). And frilly stuff on the end of a spear also distracts & hides things from sight ('cause when a big, frilly thing is in your face it's hard to see anything else...OK, I've opened the door WIDE for Bob #2 here).

I don't' buy the distraction thing on a sword,maybe it makes seance with a spear but the tassels are on the wrong end, and while i have never been in combat in the middle of a battle field with a tai ji sword(let's ask some one who has...) I don't think it would distract any thing! And i don't buy the "blood cleaning rag" theory, why in the hell would any one use a tassel to clean blood?
I have recently heard that it was used to tie to the wrist so it couldn't be lost, Whadda you think of that one? I am convinced that it had to be used as a training tool, or as purely decorative. Tim I heard that the straight tai ji sword was used mostly by gentleman and not really on the battle field at all is it true?

thanx
Chris

Generally straight swords were of two types, the 'wen jian' ('literary sword'), this is the type people practice with nowadays, they were carried in peace times or by 'gentlemen,' and weren't designed for battle (not that you couldn't kill someone with one). Apparently, back in the day, many who carried a wen jian did so as a social artifice, they really didn't know how to fence (you'll often see Confucius wearing one in statues and paintings).

The other type of straight sword is a 'wu jian' ('martial sword'), these were designed for real battle and were considerably larger and heavier that the wen jian. They were carried by soldiers in battle who knew how to use them.

Tim summed it up nicely and there was a good point in a previous message about the danger of handing out advice from a modern perspective (I haven't been on a battlefield, who has ...)

A study of of the history of arms and armor will quickly reveal that function follows form (and vice-versa) and weapons that were used for fighting were normally "plain and simple" and the expense went into the making of the weapon and not in ornamenting it. Ornamental and expensively gilded, carved or inlaid armor and weapons were for "parade" functions or for officers/nobles/royalty who did not actually get close to the fighting.

As to tassels, people whose opinion I respect have said that the tassles are useful when training solo forms as they will wrap around your wrist if you do some of the psotures incorrectly so that the use of tassels can be thought of as a "feedback" mechanism for proper mechanics.

However, on a battlefield, I would suspect that a tassel is as likely to cause your death as improve your technique. Today when taiji sword experts (a few that I have met include Yang Jwing-ming, Sam Masich and Liang Shou-yu) demonstrate two-person applications, tassels are rarely in evidence.

Finally, a cynic might be tempted to suggest that in the field tassels get dirty and wet, and rot or harbour fungus and/or parasites and your opponent might be able to get a hold of it in an attempt to gain control of the weapon. Which leads me to believe that the tassel was not originally a "lanyard", that is a way of retrieving your sword if you dropped it. Such retrieval systems don't work with edged weapons as they limit your use of the weapon in terms of ease of reach and mobility.

hey..

talking of swords here is a ba gua sword type thing..

http://members.boardhost.com/xinyi/msg/5043.html

hmm

This isn't really about the tassels, but it's about the swords, I was thinking of buying a nice tai ji sword, I have one of those "lion head" tai ji swords that every one has, and I was wanting to upgrade a bit, any suggestions, preferably under 200 bucks.

Thanx
Chris...

Tassles were and are an integral part of the jian; people who understand true usage of the taijiquan sword are able to hit their opponents with the tassles as well. The dou also has handkerchief-like things at the end, but these I was told are decorative.

Simple: War Sword No Tassle, Tassle for Formal Dress or Decoration, it doesn't catch blood, not used as a lanyard, and you don't use it to hit people in the face with during your form...though that one did kinda make me chuckle...

The Tassle is not for war. That is quite a stupid idea, just like Harry points out.

In sword practice with the tassle, then you concentrate on the movement of the tassle, not on the sword. This will give you a completely different feeling in handling the sword. That feeling is something that you also must transfer into real swordplay.

Think of the CMA staff. There it is always the back that swings the front, the back hand controlling the movement, uses force and the front hand just guiding.

This is the same with the sword. If you can give it a back part, beyond the sword and control it from this point, then your sword play will become much better, stable and stronger.

The Tassle is a TOOL for understanding real sword play, not for fighting, not for decoration, for practice only. Only in formal sworddances, the tassle has also a decorative purpose. And of course, while hanging there on the wall.

You are supposed to sometimes practice with the tassle and sometimes without, not always with or always withuot. If you practice with it, then the tassle must always be in movement and kept as straight as possible in all moves. The focus then, is not on the sword.

Good luck with your sword practice!

INCORRECT. I HAVE A COLLECTION OF WAR TASSLES!

Bob #2:
Tassles gained at the local strip club are technically not war tassles.
no matter how hard you mave have had to fight for them.

sometimes my speling is off. My collection are indeed whore tassles.