http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYIxGbZYUMQ

Nice clean stuff. Anyone know this teacher, Shen Tiegen?

Thanks,
Richard S.

Never heard of this guy.

This looks like standard block/counterpunching to me. There is definitely a 1-then-2 tempo to it. The blocks are circular and somewhat blending with the atacker, but the counterattack does not use the energy of the opponent to "load up the spring" and return the energy from the legs. The counters often look isolated to the shoulder and arm only.

This is very different from any of the Wu Style applications that I have been taught by Master Henry Cheng. These moves are much bigger and more obvious than much of the stuff that we train. Many of the applications that we are taught are more grappling or locking oriented. There are rarely closed fist strikes at medium or long distance.

Hello Tim,

Thanks for the feedback. Like I said, I don't know much about this Shen Tiegen, but I thought the video was pretty nice. I think he must be a Wu/Hao guy. Isn't your instructor Henry Cheng from the Wu Jian Quan lineage?

Thanks,
Richard

shen tiegen trains wu jianquan taijiquan. he was one of qian caoqun's top students, who was in turn one of ma yueliang's top students. this video probably showcases mr.shen's abilities better than the one above: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvxngwuksAA
he often looks disconnected in these videos, but once you actually touch him you'll find that he's very connected and fluid. his teaching methods also yield results.

That guys got some terrible posture.

Richard,

Yes I study with Henry Cheng.

Mozart,

Thanks for the lineage info. Sounds like you have some direct experience with him. But the second video clip still looks pretty different from what we train (more counterpunching at long range instead of connecting to the opponent's center for takedowns and joint locks).

Also, the stance is vertical, the weight equally distibuted, and the balance is kind of shaky. In Wu style one of the defining characteristics is the 100/0 leg weight distribution. In other words, one of the legs is the "stake" (yin), the other is the "post" (yang). Most counter-attacks originate from the stake leg after using the energy of the opponent's motion to compress it into the ground. I see very little evidence of this in the 2nd video.

Tim

Tim Ash,

Is there video footage of the techniques you describe that we can use for a comparison?

Dave

Here is a nice classical Northern Wu (Hao) Taiji performance from Li Bing Ci

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZOdCQnABEE


And here is a grainy but viewable clip of Wu Ying Hwa (daughter of Wu Jian Quan) performaing the Souther Wu (Wu Jian Quan) taiji

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y18sTuexaTo

Dave,

There is a 10 minute video about Wu Style here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9015778841890401193&q=wu+tai+chi+ma&hl=en

The later portion shows a pushing hands demostration with 3rd generation master Ma Jiangbao. He is the third son of Wu Yinghua (the daughter of the Wu Style founder) & Ma Yueliang (one of the great grandmasters of Wu Style who was named one of China's 100 living treasures).

This is a public demonstration in a controlled "pushing hands" setting, and the moves are designed to be larger and visible for the audience. Of course there is a much more restrictive set of "polite" counterattacks that can be done during such a demonstration, but you can still see the following differences from the above video clips:
- continual contact with the opponent
- ongoing flow
- whole body motion
- counterattacks mostly done with continual control and light pressure instead of abrupt linear striking (except for release of "jai"-straight push energy)

Also notice the slippery floor. It is not possible to issue power and brace your legs very well. So all of the power is generated from downward leg compression. Contrast this with the foot contact with the ground on the videos above.

Hope this helps,


Tim

Not really Tim Ash,

The link doesn’t appear to work. Also, it would be nice to show some applications against free attacks rather than push hands as way of comparison.

Dave

Hi,

I don't know if this has much relevance, but here is a short movie of Ma Yueh Liang practicing with one of his students -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHQv6fLpIoI

With regards,
Matthew.