Archive through April 22, 2008

Tim's Discussion Board: Tai Ji Quan : Catching punches: Archive through April 22, 2008
   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 10:20 pm: Edit Post

So while training the other day alone with my master, the topic came up of, can you catch a punch? This is interesting because a lot of people say that the UFC proved that you can't. I don't think it did because there wasn't one good practitioner of kung fu there.

I asked my master and he said yes. I was doubtful so I asked if he can do it and he said yes. We kind of hand sparred around for a second and after slapping away a few of my jabs I decided to really go for it and try to hit him. So I did and next thing I know he has my arm caught and is applying some joint lock that hurt my shoulder oh soo bad, haha. First it brought me to my toes and then down to my knees.

Anyway, I thought it was kind of cool. I was throwing real punches. In the beginning they didn't have much intent behind them and because of that he basically ignored them and slapped them away but when i really went for it I guess he could tell and he got me good. kind of interesting.


   By Backarcher on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 12:09 am: Edit Post

Go to a boxing gym.


   By Shane on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 12:28 am: Edit Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az1So7v3ZfI


   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 04:03 pm: Edit Post

I have been to a boxing gym. In fact I trained in one down in mexico for 3 months while on my honeymoon. I learned a lot there and I had many opportunities to test out and apply my hand techniques from the martial arts. I actually found that sticking and trapping was very effective against them. There were a few there that were great though and I had to work really hard to stay in there with them. I remember going home sore most days, haha. Good experience.


   By Jake Burroughs on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 06:14 pm: Edit Post

Any video?
Because "sticking and trapping" with my boxing coach will surely get my jaw rearranged!
Quite simply Kelly most everyone on this board is going to question your statements because it has never worked for anyone that is training in reality. I had many of these delusions prior to meeting my teachers Hu Xi Lin, and Tim 6 years ago. Frankly I do not see you sticking and trapping any boxer from anywhere with more than 2 weeks training! But again, I will be the first to admit I was wrong if I see video!
Jake


   By Tai Chi BOB on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 03:31 am: Edit Post

KCJ went boxing in Mexico for three months while on his honeymoon.

and the discussion board let that statement go without comment.

I must now resign myself to the the cynicism of a failed romantic.


   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 04:36 pm: Edit Post

No Jake I didn't take any videos of myself there. I guess the idea that I would need to prove myself never entered my mind. Don't get me wrong. Notice my last statement, "I remember going home sore most days, haha." I was able to apply some principles while boxing. I "lost" a good deal of the time and learned a lot from it. I learned what you can apply with gloves on and what you cant. I am not claiming that I went down to Mexico and whipped a bunch of Boxers' asses. Quite the opposite.

"I must now resign myself to the the cynicism of a failed romantic."

I don't what you mean by this, but it sure sounded good, haha.


   By Jake Burroughs on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 06:33 pm: Edit Post

That is fine, show us some video of you applying all these principles now!
Thanks
Jake


   By Jason M. Struck on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 02:34 pm: Edit Post

if I tried to 'trap' a decently trained boxer, I would not 'go home sore''most' days. I would have got knocked the out.

On the plus side, I would have had a lot of time to recover on my 90 day honeymoon.


   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 11:13 pm: Edit Post

"if I tried to 'trap' a decently trained boxer, I would not 'go home sore''most' days. I would have got knocked the out."

Yah because there is no way to train other than to knock each other out.
Well I am competing in that tournament so Ill post up a video of it and you can all tell me how horrible I am, haha.
I trained 6 days a week by myself and 5 days a week with a local boxing gym.


   By chris hein on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 02:00 pm: Edit Post

I don't really think anyone is questioning your boxing skills. It's the catching a good punch that none of us have ever seen.

Get your teacher, to do it again, exactly as you described, video it, and pop it up on youtube. Everyone in the world would love to see it, it might actually be a boon for your teacher.

I do Aikido, all of those guys think you can catch a punch, I've still yet to see it. Although I ask every high ranked teacher to show me, they never want to try...


   By Tai Chi BOB on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 12:30 am: Edit Post

well lets just say:
there was a lot of sticking and trapping envoled in my first 5 honeymoons as well.


   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 03:42 am: Edit Post

"well lets just say:
there was a lot of sticking and trapping envoled in my first 5 honeymoons as well."

haha.

As for the catching a punch comments made by chris, here is a bit more. I personally have a hard time with it as well. What I could see as a more logical possibility would be going from punching range to sticking range and that allows you to grab a hold of a punch and then apply the technique. I asked Master Lu about this and he said sure that could work also. He is more of a believer in training and finding out than philosophizing over something. I might ask him if hed be willing to do that.


   By Jason M. Struck on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 12:16 pm: Edit Post

""Yah because there is no way to train other than to knock each other out. ""

that's always been how I interpreted the rules/aims/goals of boxing...


   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 04:38 pm: Edit Post

Yes that is part of the goals of boxing. Does that mean that while training you always just "go at it" until someone gets knocked out? of course not. There are drills, controlled sparring, light sparring, etc.


   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 04:52 pm: Edit Post

You cannot apply anything in live sparring until you have drilled it many times.


   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 06:54 pm: Edit Post

There is also the term of a "skilled boxer" being used. Or your boxing coach. You were saying that you couldn't trap your boxing coach. Well, no . Just like you couldn't out kick a tae kwan do coach. You probably couldn't do a judo throw on a wrestling coach. Why? because they are good at what they do. Of course somebody with limited experience and training wont be able to do things to somebody with experience and training. Try to take Chen Xiaowang down or use joint locks and throws on him. It probably wont happen. try that on Tim. It is going to be difficult. Now put yourself in the other seat. If you were Chen Xiaowang, or Tim, or the black taoist, or Royler Gracie, or whatever, you could probably do your stuff to people with less skill. Royce gracie did great in the early UFCs because he was better than everyone else. Now he competed against other people with ground game, ie matt hughes, and he got his ass kicked. Of course it will be more difficult to apply things on people at your level or higher. I guarantee I cant trap Master Lu. I couldn't trap guys that are better than me because simply that, they are better than me. I can on people that are not as good as me or at my level.


   By Jason M. Struck on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 07:12 pm: Edit Post

I'd venture to say, if the boxer were allowed to punch me in the face, that I'd have a hard time using any sort of trapping technique against any level of boxer to effect the end of winning a boxing match.


   By Jamie on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 12:52 am: Edit Post

As a side note:
Some years ago I had a private lesson with Chen XiaoWang. He locked and threw me to the concrete several times. It was the first time I experienced the Martial Art applications of Taijiquan.
I just thought I would share that for for anybody that legitimizes their Taiji by studying other martial arts.
CXW can use Taiji as a martial art and it really works- against resistance.

I do have a question while I am here.
How does one catch punches with boxing gloves on?


   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 05:02 am: Edit Post

Jason, well I suppose well just have to agree to disagree. In my mind, it comes down to skill and experience. The end.

Jamie, Cool story. I have only seen a few videos of him and he seems pretty solid.
You cant catch a punch with gloves on. I am not sure where I misled you to think that is what I meant. Master Lu caught me empty handed. No gloves were involved.