i know this isn't taiji, but i couldn't think where to put it. This is the last part of a documentary on the art. Very interesting actually. In the begining they show some pretty normal pressure point stuff where they apply pressure during throws and joint locks, but later he actually starts full on striking his students and actually shows some pretty deeps •••• i think. What do you guys think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ_PV_Rcsbk&feature=related

interesting clips. esp the pressure point stuff. This among other things is something mma and sport fighting will never teach you. Thats why I dont really train anymore. They only teach stuff gathered for sport and for people ur own weight class. I got into some fights and it was often harder fighting people on the street and damaging them than sparring in sport style gyms where people went down and quit after a single groin hit.

At the same time though, pressure point stuff is a low success rate type deal I believe. If you are good enough to strike with that type of acuracy, you should be able to target sport type places as well like the face, lol. MMA guys tend to spend their time learning high success rate type techniques and such that will work most of the time in a fight and dont take ten years to be able to use, haha. Most pressure point stuff out there is totally rediculous when it comes to real fighting on the street or the cage. Some of the stuff he was doing seemed practical though. That leg technique was pretty aplicable i think, similar to the thai thigh kick. That punch and the forearm strike to the neck seemed pretty aplicable as well. Who knows though, haha. Either way, that was dope how he just full on knocked those guys out and choked the other one out, haha. Ouch.

What the art looks like with resistance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odU_E9P5-2s&feature=related

It would be interesting to know if they were trying to go full contact there. I wonder for instance if they were trying for things like that leg kick or neck shot with the points. Haha, everyone should note though that none of their famous aikidoesch throws and joint locks were applied there. However their could have been some rules unknown to us that prohibited that.

well thats not true Kelly. I trained in boxing a long time and did pad work and mitts and stuff and the first time I messed around with this other street fighter where he punched me in my palms to show how much force he has it almost broke my bottom of the palm (or felt like it). but when i tried hitting him (after doing years of focus mitts with big gloves like in most boxing gyms) I had a hard time targetting the specific point of the bottom of the palm to exert similar force and kept sliding past it, or hitting it at an angle. If I used less force I could hit the palms but if I used full force to try literally making him quit and hitting him as hard as he hit me I had a very hard time hitting the exact sweet spot accurately like he did. While with big gloves it is real easy. Same thing with blocking. You cant block bare knuckle the same way as with gloves. If you try blocking with your arm or forearm in bare knuckle and their fist hits the bone or the side of the arm where the muscle is, you'll have a dead if not broken arm (if they hit hard enough). It is totally different and most of those sport places dont even try to explore those differences or teach you them.

kelly, joint locks dont really work unless the other peros is standing still and not expecting it or something and evens till. but at the same time a lot of those mma clinches dont work when the other person is allowed to kick you in the groin or headbutt you in the face or bite ur nose off. For this reason it can be evry hard restraining a woman cause women dont feel fear form doing that to you due to society's sgima on you being able to actually strike at her.

Good observations, Kelly!

Royce Gracie didn't seem to have a lot a trouble "clinching" during the first UFCs when headbutts and groin shots were allowed.

Yet, Enforcer you are correct in that it does change the dynamics of the clinch.

Pressure points and standing joint locks are not useless. Nothing is useless!

Using pressure points, biting, and gouging are great to create space at times, like when someone is on top of you...but then you need skill to take advantage of that space.

Joint locks work best when you have control of your opponent's shoulder plane or hip region.

Standing joint locks are best against "passive aggression". They are good to have working security or LE.

Enforcer, you had "years" of boxing? I thought you were too young to have years of "good" boxing training(mitts, heavybag, drills, "good" coaching and hundreds of hours of sparring).

Enforcer, you are correct about the different dynamic of the boxing gloves compared with MMA gloves or bare knuckle. Yet, the force will not likely break a bone.

For MMA, learning good head movement is more valuable and learning to "crash/clinch".
The average guy isn't going to have the body awaneness or balance in the clinch to stop a skilled clincher. Again...just watch UFC 1-3.

Yes, boxing with big gloves is hugely differend. When I boxed down in mexico, I was trying to use my hsing yi while sparring as much as I could and it was way different then when i had practiced and sparred bareknuckle.

I would also like to point out that because you were unable to "target that sweet spot" hardly means that all boxers couldn't.

"kelly, joint locks dont really work unless the other peros is standing still and not expecting it or something and evens till."

notice the sarcasm in my previous statements.

"but at the same time a lot of those mma clinches dont work when the other person is allowed to kick you in the groin or headbutt you in the face or bite ur nose off."

This is such a common misconception. If you can kick in the nuts geuss what? He can too. If you think that he wont be fighting dirty, you are way off. Those "mma clinches" work just fine if you can adapt them to the situation.

"I would also like to point out that because you were unable to "target that sweet spot" hardly means that all boxers couldn't."

I mean I eventually was but it took specific area practice and didnt come from mitt focus or boxing skills in a gym geared for sport with gloves. To really become good at small target hitting you need to hit with bare knuckles at small spots really hard it just doesnt really translate. And I dont have many yrs of practice just about 1-3 but still over a year. I mean it was also a lot harder hitting people without gloves and equipment on the street in the fights I was with than in the gym as well. The reason I think is because your hands are such small targets you have to get a lot closer to them to hit them right and theya re so much ligher it takes a lot more skill deflecting and covering up as well as using offense. They float about the air real easily due to the lightness and it is a lot easier to egt into a haymaker war due to this and difficulty of deflecting many real short and fast but without a lot of power hits (you dont need too much power to feel the pain bar eknuckle). Also due to the adrenaline and desperation of the street mindset they will often just keep hitting and go at you a lot stronger so reach advantage plays a larger role. You wont be able to set up ur combos with jabs for instance because theyll hit you at the same time you throw ur jab.

In order to win most street fights you basically have to knock them out or they will just keep coming. In the gym theyll quit after a single accidental groin shot. Its totally different. Thats why street fighters are probably most of the time better fighters if they know how to use size advantage and agression to their advantage.

"To really become good at small target hitting you need to hit with bare knuckles at small spots really hard it just doesnt really translate."

If you think that hitting a stationary hand in its "sweet spot" translates into being able to his acupoints on a moving body that also has dfenses.... haha, i dont know what to tell you.

"The reason I think is because your hands are such small targets you have to get a lot closer to them to hit them right and theya re so much ligher it takes a lot more skill deflecting and covering up as well as using offense."

Yes your hands are alot smaller. This also means that you are faster and it is more difficult for them to defend against. It is a two way street.

"Also due to the adrenaline and desperation of the street mindset they will often just keep hitting and go at you a lot stronger so reach advantage plays a larger role."

Reach always plays a role. If you are short you just need to know how to get on the inside, where you have the advantage now.

"You wont be able to set up ur combos with jabs for instance because theyll hit you at the same time you throw ur jab."

This is only true if you are not more skilled than them. If you have good footwork and know how to use angles, you can deal with all of their forward agression. That is a pretty normal skill taken from boxing. I am suprized that after 1-3 years of it, you haven't gained that yet.

"In order to win most street fights you basically have to knock them out or they will just keep coming. In the gym theyll quit after a single accidental groin shot. Its totally different."

Do you honestly think that those guys in the gym would quit as easily on the street? Also, do you think those guys on the street would keep comming if they were in the gym and took an accidental groin shot in a sparring match with a team mate?

"Thats why street fighters are probably most of the time better fighters if they know how to use size advantage and agression to their advantage."

This is only true if you dont know how to use your own advantages in a fight and be able to keep your head.

f you think that hitting a stationary hand in its "sweet spot" translates into being able to his acupoints on a moving body that also has dfenses.... haha, i dont know what to tell you."

hey birdbrain why dont you actually listen to waht I have to say. I never said it translated into any acupuncture crap that you believe in, I said that boxing gyms and mma gyms are full of only people who train with gloves for sport fighting, they are not interested in being supreme street fighters or learning how to be. ANd often their stuff doesnt translate well into ungloved chaotic against people bigger and stronger and more agressive than you fighting.

"Yes your hands are alot smaller. This also means that you are faster and it is more difficult for them to defend against. It is a two way street. "

I never said otherwise, but most people dont need to defend often times they just brawl and take hits and unleash hits at the same time. SO you cant set them up easily because theyll expect to get hit and hit you at the same time unlike in mma matches where fighters are careful not to get hit. If they have reach theyll also be able to hit you everytime esp if they dont set themselves up by throwing punches first you slip but wait for you to.

"Reach always plays a role. If you are short you just need to know how to get on the inside, where you have the advantage now. "

see the thing is unlike in boxing matches where you cant throw your opponent to the ground or knee often times in street fights they are a lot bigger and stronger and will dominate you if you get too close or clinch. Or at least there is the threat of that so why risk it?

"Do you honestly think that those guys in the gym would quit as easily on the street? Also, do you think those guys on the street would keep coming if they were in the gym and took an accidental groin shot in a sparring match with a team mate? "

a lot of them would. The people who go to ma or sport ma classes are people who often have the money and come from upper classes and havent been in many if any street fights in their lives. For instance almost everyone in the local mma gym in my town is a college student or a nerd.

it seems youve never been in a street fight before. Even people on kung fu online and bullshido say smetimes the most unpredictable fighters can pose a more difficult challenge than something your used to facing day in and out in the gym,(the same muay thai techniques or boxing techniques for instance by the book)and wild swinging can actually cause damage whether you believe it or not. Heck someone charging you with a fist and not even throwing a punch can cause damage. You falling accidentally backwards because of a tree stump because ur not fighting in a familiar environment can make you lose. etc. Fighting is oftend efined as much by skill as by determination, agressiveness, and luck.

"hey birdbrain why dont you actually listen to waht I have to say. I never said it translated into any acupuncture crap that you believe in, I said that boxing gyms and mma gyms are full of only people who train with gloves for sport fighting, they are not interested in being supreme street fighters or learning how to be."

Haha...hmmmmm
"interesting clips. esp the pressure point stuff. This among other things is something mma and sport fighting will never teach you. Thats why I dont really train anymore."
Ok.

"ANd often their stuff doesnt translate well into ungloved chaotic against people bigger and stronger and more agressive than you fighting."

Haha, do you think that is less true with any other martial art. It is always tough to translate your skills into a fight against a bigger, stronger, more agressive fighter, nomatter what style/styles you practice. People who do mma or boxing typically do better than your average martial artist however because they are used to the chaos of a fight and have a few techniques that they can use really well versus most MA guys who usually have a thousand techniques but cant execute any of them in a fight. And why the hell does everyone assume that guys on the street are always bigger?

Now, I do believe the traditional arts can be used in the cage and on the street but damnit, you have to train realistically.... which sadly, rarely happens in the tma community.

I never said that. I think finding ur own training partners like bruce lee did and trianing bare knuckle and with a face cage helmet among things would be better and in different settings than any organized ma class whether it be sport style or the so called tma styles now that plain out suck. I think both methods are pretty crappy in general though. its better to be bigger, stronger, and more agressive than ur opponent and with fighting experience. Thats why its the gang banegrs and ghetto people who win in most fights. A lot of white people and asians in general dont have that street mentality anymore and agression.

I mean I dont meana s a bigenner, learn a sport and tma style for a while and than just train with ur own gorup of friends without the egar they force u to wear at those gyms due to insurance policies and at different situations like if someone has a knife and u dont and such.

Maybe set up a fight club of some sorts.