• Archive through March 28, 2006 March 28 - 03:50 am [20]

I like what Rickson Gracie said, "Standing up, no-gi training is better, but on the ground gi is better".

I think this is why BJJ adopted many wrestling type takedowns for the art instead of the typical Judo with gi. they realized that hardly any material is equivalent to a strong gi jacket. California, brazil...almost anywhere, how often do you wear a big strong jacket?

That's why a like chinese wrestling, it's not so much dependant on the jacket.

Also, I live in Michigan. I had an iteresting question for one of the officers I train. I asked him what is the setting of most assaults? He said indoors and around the home. they are not usually wearing a jacket.

Yet, wrestling someone who is skilled in BJJ is frustrating when they know how to utilize the grabbing of the pants. But that's grappling, not fighting. (from my experience)grabbing the pants fighting gets you punched in the face.

As I said before, in reality most situations are not done in a big strong jacket nor "naked". Most have a shirt on. Most people who train no-gi train in a shirt. I've been grappling for over 10, wrestling for...more years I can count, never have I grappled shirtless.

Learn to throw without the gi:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-467140434981184276&q=karo+parisyan&pl=t rue

Well, speaking as an officer, that's a bit misleading... permit me to expound.

When I first trained jits, we did it wearing gi. We then switched to wearing t-shirts and shorts. Every choke we worked wearing the gi we worked wearing t-shirts. In fact, many of the chokes worked BETTER with the t-shirt because the thinner material had more "bite." Problem was, you had to get deep grips and shirts didn't last very long in training. They still worked quite well and certainly would for a one time self defense encounter. If not, transition to something else.

Depending on your climate, people wear all sorts of clothes, indoors and out, that can be used in grappling. Sweatshirts work great, lighter, layered outer "shell" type pullovers and vests are also quite functional as a "gi."

Here's another thing: blankets, sheets, belts and many other daily use textiles are also great standins for the gi. I have several times used sheets to wrap around suspect's heads to prevent them from biting or spitting and to turn their heads away from me for control.

Same for using the shirt - they can be used to choke but better yet they can be passed across the face or through the mouth for the same purposes as above.

If the guy has long enough hair, a fistfull can also be twisted like a rope and used to control his head and across his face (or through his mouth) for same.

Clothes can be used against them in many other ways. Simple "hockey fight" tricks are also a good move in a street fight.

Learn to throw with the gi...learn to throw without the gi. Learn to grapple with the gi, learn to grapple without. That way, if you are going for a clothing control and the clothes rip or prove unworkable, you can still fight. And if the guy is naked (not uncommon in police work) you can still fight.

I think the arguments for one or the other are limiting and situational. I'd say don't think of it in terms of the "rules" but be creative in what you use the cloth for.

"...Learn to throw with the gi...learn to throw without the gi. Learn to grapple with the gi, learn to grapple without. That way, if you are going for a clothing control and the clothes rip or prove unworkable, you can still fight. And if the guy is naked (not uncommon in police work) you can still fight.

I think the arguments for one or the other are limiting and situational. I'd say don't think of it in terms of the "rules" but be creative in what you use the cloth for."

Great post, T. G.!

Once you define yourself, your "limit yourself"!

The two really compliment the other and everyone's understanding is different.

My judo(with gi) has improved since working my throws without the gi, for without the gi you truly must understand the "concept of the throw" to make it work. Now, going back to the gi the throws come easier.

And true, if you can escape and define with the gi, it's much easier(defensively) without the gi to worry about.

the "either or" argument is not as useful as "both".

you all make good points!
i train for MMA so i don't use my GI any more.
but for you guys that train for street
situations do you guy strike (on the feet or
on the ground)with the GI on.
because i know how hard it is sometime to
avoid being punch on the ground,i can only
imagine if he got a good grip on the collar
and is hitting with the other hand.
what about the clinch that must be tough?
must be hard to get away from a thai clinch
when he's holding the GI!

Marc,

I think if someone is training "alive", like an martial combative athlete, not a stereotypical "martial artist", any any capacity, it will be his attibutes(from "alive" training) that endures in a 30 second or less "street" situation, rather than specific tactics.

i think that the Karo video is awesome. Uchi-mata, kata guruma and ippon seoi nage. Plus, some mean morote gari type stuff. Koshi guruma works just fine without a gi, as does Ura-nage as I am sure someone like Backarcher would be willing to testify.

Training with the gi has helped my No Gi game. I have heard alot of similar opinions. Like Tim said, if you are training to be a MMA fighter, dont worry about wearing the jacket. train specifically for your sport.

At last years ADCC, some hardline NOGI fighters actually did poorly to competitors who train both Gi and no gi. Example, Chris Brennan.

"..At last years ADCC, some hardline NOGI fighters actually did poorly to competitors who train both Gi and no gi. Example, Chris Brennan."

You really can't make that comparison yet. Wait a few years. You are talking about people who train BBJ all of their lives compared with guys who were doing folk and freestyle wrestling in their youth and dividing their training with MMA as an adult.

I think it's amazing that a guy little Matt Lindland can choke out two BJJ blackbelts in a "fight" and he's only been doing submission(without the gi) for a few years.

I feel just as amazed about Americans like Tim, who unlike the Brazilians, have taken up BJJ in only the last few years and can still hang with Brazilians that have been doing BJJ most of their lives.

Again, both is best. But they are different games.

backarcher,you're right i train with matt!
i'm sure that Leopoldo was wondering where
the hell was matt's GI?HAHAHAHA!

Striking changes everything

What was the original question?

who knows?
my question was "to gi or not to gi?"

"to gi or not to gi?"

the simple answer. Do both. If your dream is to be the next MMA legend, it's Muay Thai and wrestling, and No gi. In that order.

b_rad thanks for the absolute answer!
i do that already!
i'm trying to make a point for all the brainwashed
BJJ guys out there!and there is a lot!
forget grabbing the clothes,learn to use the body,
if clothes are there,they're there,better for you .
but don't get caught up in the gi crap!
where are the great GI masters in MMA.
royce?no not anymore!rickson?is he still alive?
or just avoiding his first lost?matt serra?
i think his contract ran out!nogeira?
in the shadow of FEDOR!
frank mir?under the elbows of pe de pano!
(that one is not working!)
but pe de pano? was he ever meant to stand on his legs?frank heinstein looks coordinated on his feet compared to pe de pano!
the gi is good if you plan on fight in the winter
but then what?

i love talking to myself,but it gets old
after ••••••• myself!
i just want to roll over and sleep!

Backarcher states "I feel just as amazed about Americans like Tim, who unlike the Brazilians, have taken up BJJ in only the last few years..."

Since when does 12+ years years constitute only a few years?

When you compare it to training and being exposed to it your entire life!!!!!!

12 years of gi,amounts to 1 year of no-gi/MMA!
so your point is what?

man, i forgot:
ROYCE SUCKS,HE'S GONNA LOSE!!!!!!!!1