Being the first to initiate makes you so tired. But waiting and countering the other guys throw makes for a boring match especially if the other guy isn't doing anything.

Are the wrestlers here counter or aggressive?

I tried being aggressive and I lost my gas and my grip.

I know the strategies though. Counter when he is trying to throw and try to throw him when he isn't doing anything. These are nice ideas but to be honest I've noticed two types of grapplers. Ones that mostly counter or ones that mostly initiate.

My first observation would be if you want to be an aggressive wrestler, you'll need to work on your cardio and grip strength, upping your cardio and grip endurance are both relatively easy and straight forward fixes.

My opinion, learn economy of motion/energy and learn how to move and off balance your opponent with technique.

I'm a 47 year old wrestler who wrestles with guys as young as 16 to30 years old. A few have placed nationally.

I have no problem having my way with them using "old man" cardio (relaxation) and "old man" strength (structure and technique).

Tons of gas and strength with nowhere to go is a waste of energy.

1) Find your game 2) develop your game 3)Make your opponent play your game 4) Learn to capitalize of of over aggressive wrestlers and defensive wrestlers.

A study of Russia vs USA in freestyle wrestling has been an over 50 year study of these combating approaches to wrestling.

I can go either way Defensive Russian style or American Aggression, depending on my opponent.


Yet, I could not do it with a years of pure study and practice of technique and strategy.


All good wrestlers use the same 1 or 2 strategies when confronting another wrestler. I find most guys are absence of a strategy. Those same wrestlers have counters and re-counters off of his reactions. This takes a good focused six months or more study and practice. Technique!!!

I was a very typical American style wrestler. I was ultra aggressive. I "always" attacked of the whistle and "always" got my double. 100% career takedown rate in all my years of competitive wrestling.
Why didn't wrestle in college? We'll if you survived the first period with me...you literally won. I was a muscle head and farm boy who spent hours lifting weights and very few minutes doing cardio. I also had very little technique that I executed. I knew a lot in training, but in the actual match, I showed little diversity. Double leg, cradle or power half and pin. That's it for 5 years of wrestling.

In my early 30s, a suffered my first ACL tear, in my late 30s, I tore it again doing Greco a wrestling camp for teens. (I wasn't thrown there either) and a few years later I suffered my 3rd ACL injury doing judo.

Bottomline, I was old and had a bad knee, I had to change my style. So I combine the European style and mindset with my Judo/Sambo to create my
style.

My goals: Get a grip, off balance, get a control tie, off balance, get a takedown. Usually because I've spent decades perfecting my control ties, once I get it, he's locked and usually does something stupid to get out...and there's my takedown!!! Thank you, I say.

Sample strategy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fckZY3aAQ9c

timber your strategy is very rudimentary. You strategy needs to be to obtain a specific control point. (underhook, overhook, bodylock, head/arm tie, russian 2 on 1, inside 2 on 1, or simple double wrist tie, collar and elbow, double collar, double bicep...I can go on an on.

Then, your strategy should be getting his off-balance and see what he exposes or how he tries to counter.

Then, your takedown will appear...only if you have the technique to take advantage of the opening.

A very basic strategy is "push and pull". But you have to have the technique to take advantage of the energy he gives you. And hope he is not setting you up.

Backarcher, your posts are amazing. If you and Tim had a child it would rule all of Japanese judo and be treated like a god. Anyway.

You're right. I need a strategy. In bao ding(fast hands) Shuai jiao there is a strategy and I need to learn it better. The strategy is to throw as soon as you get a grip. Keep changing grip on your opponent and keep moving to keep him off balance and to mess with him. My problem is like many Shuai Jiao players. When the adrenaline hits I find a grip and try to throw from that grip. I only changed grips when the ref enforces the count rule(change grip after 10 seconds I think). This animal mode I go into then causes my grip to fatigue.

The guys I was fighting have a strategy that I knew about but coolsnt counter. They hold onto one grip and wait for you to try something. Then they counter. One guy likes to keep all his opponents out at arms length and executes from there. I coolsnt get close to him . I had some success and frustrated him by literally grabbing his arms before he could get me with his streak grip. Then I would pull him into me.

My phone auto corrects me too much. Steal grip, not steak grip. I'm hungry!

I also get heated quickly meaning I'm tense from the beginning of the round till the end. My teachers generally are relaxed even after they establish a grip. Then they'll explode and try to throw.

BA, what kind of cardio stuff do you do for wrestling specific cardio? Do you do a lot of aerobic(running) and or anaerobic(burpees) or both?

I hate running long distance, personally.

Also, what do you think of the bao ding strategy?

bao ding strategy is great. Many freestyle wrestlers use it as well as Sambo players. I love to watch a good Shuai jiao player do it.

Have you ever considered using a 2 on 1 one the arm holding you out.

Cardio? Relaxation, yoga and Kbells. I usually use my opponents tension and aggressiveness. I don't have to work very hard. Technique rules!

Against with better technique than me...I'm gased!

Both arms are holding me out. You're saying I should try to get to one side.

Good posts Backarcher.

How is your handfighting? Do you practice grip stripping?

Whether I'm doing Judo, Sambo, BJJ, or wresting, I'm still only practicing one art..."my art". My art has no label just universal concepts that apply in all combative arts/sports I practice.

I find that the handfighting I learned in wrestling applies very well in any jacket grappling art. He can't grip me if I control his hands (so control his hands/wrist) and he can't throw me if he doesn't have a grip (so strip his grip).

In all combative arts, the flank is ideal. So, finding an angle is essential. Getting to one side is always a good strategy.

The 2 on 1 is very universal. It's an easy strategy to begin with and use with or without a jacket, on the ground or standing. Intellectually, you know you always have a place to go. Even if you are a guard puller, with the 2 on 1, you pull guard and you are half way to his back.

I even use it sparring Sanda or Muay thai.

The key is controlling his shoulder with your shoulder.

But find the strategy that is best for you and style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTOmSjc-yVE&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76c269wWMvg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGCn6_-9riQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wxDdRNngT0

Below is a good resource. (2 on 1 options with the jacket) He asked me to review it when it first came out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbGKLfjFalE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gEoolehAuk

That's what I thought you meant. I use a variation of that 2 on 1 grip all the time. What I do is grab the inside of your left sleeve with my right hand and grab high on the inside lapel with my left hand. That seems to be my go to grip.

I should be grip stripping more but I always forget. There is anxiety in the fighters faces when we are fighting for a grip. As soon as we grab onto each other there is visible relaxation atleast on my part anyway.

I will practice my "fast hands" more. I think I get nervous because a lot of guys I wrestle are stronger than me and are always dictating my movement. So that causes me to hold on for dear life as if on a rollercoaster because I feel like if I go to change grips I will go flying.


I'm going to practice. I need more sparring partners. This sport causes a lot of injuries. I have had minor injuries but even though I've been thrown a lot lately I have remained injury free. Knock on my wood. Thanks for the links, backarcher.

Backarcher,
You mentioned to of balance theopponent first. An interesting little fact is that in Beijing sj they don't off balance at all. They do the opposite which is pin you down and then when you react to that they try to toss you.

The great thing about clinching and jacket grappling is that you can maintain relatively good throwing skills without a lot of throwing. Safe!

Handfighting, grip fighting, and clinch practice can all be done without ever hitting the mat.

Most people cannot handfight. Most people cannot grip fight. Most people know very little clinching.

Therefore, just by mastering handfighting, gripping and control ties, you develop a tremendous advantage over most. The takedown will be effortless, once you learn to control the spine and shoulder plane. You don't have to do tons of 100% sparring to takedowns.

About 60-75% clinch training with only gripping and control ties and the rest can be practice complete throws with your opponent only resisting about 25-50%.

This is a method I use for "adults" who are not training for high level competition. which are most. it's very safe.

Here's an example of nagekomi or training complete throws when your opponent is only resisting about 50%. Very safe.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9CguQf1Ua4

Of course, with a gi, which is easily gripped, the dynamics change. Without a gi, with arts like wrestling, the throws are different. With Judo, the grip is made first most of the time. I also think that is a rule.

In wrestling, there is more emphasis on fast takedowns that rely more on body pressure, and grips are confined to parts of the body that are easily gripped, (neck hands ankles wrists, etc.

I've seen good wrestlers who have no idea how to gripfight with a gi, it neutralizes their technique to some degree.

But take the gi off, and the wrestler will have his/her advantage back. Which is why its good to cross train.

There are also methods iv'e seen, that employ "other" body parts for gripping which of course would be illegal in sport fighting. The best way i can describe it... Eagle claw type stuff, and/or turning the head and twisting the neck to throw. combined with throwing.

There are arms techniques that translate well to judo, but im not sure if you can transition from armlock to throw... I dont think you can. Havent been in the judo realm for some time now.

Timber, you have to set up your throws. You need a gameplan, and several techniques that you can employ from different angles which you have practiced and know will work if you can score them..



With wrestling, just stand up wrestling... If you are just starting out, You need to practice the sprawl, the single leg, and the double leg ad nauseum.
Sprawl, single, double. A tip, single is faster.

If you are setting up a counter, you dont wait for it. The opponent will keep using the same technique, thats when you counter.

If you keep waiting, if they have any skill, they will find a weakness in your defense and exploit it.

You have to constantly attack, but also in a defensive way, or you will get trapped. You are also very prone to sacrifice throws if you are just waiting to counter.

Its a mixture of both.

And if you are against a skilled jiu jitsu player in a grip game, they can just pull you into guard position if you are stalling too much. Then you're in trouble if you don't know what to do...

If you prefer chinese terms. Use "peng" energy, uproot them, and then go for the single, or double.

Pull them down, and when you feel the resistance against the downward force, quickly jolt up and forward, this off balances them, and then you go low for the single, or any other low technique..