I think that many on this board will appreciate Scott Sonnon's newer work, and this blog in particular.

enjoy!

http://www.rmaxinternational.com/blog/?p=75

He has some great stuff, and his understanding seems pretty deep. But I really don't get the marketing hype BS. He has apparently maid some false claims (see www.worldwidegrappling.com / MMA Saddle thread) about his titles, positions, experience, and so forth. He seems to need to rename things and then market the hell out of it to make his time worth while. I am not sure why he doesn't just do what he does without all the silliness.
He is the S&C coach for Alberto Crane and I wish them both th best. Scott has been VERY critical of MMA training, and MMA coaches in the past, so it will be interesting to see his approach and the end result.

Jake

I know him and trained with him and was one of his coaches for years. I owe him a lot, but I think I returned much also.

My opinion...see Jake's opinion!

Sonnon's main "problem" is that he doesn't speak three-word sentences. The guy is educated and has something different to say from a lot of other people. He has to explain it if you're going to get the principle of what he's doing.

Although I prefer the old ways, the exercises on the clip are outstanding training.

Tim,
Just curious, when you say the "old ways" are you referring to Sonnon's earlier material, the fuhugong you got from tangshoudao, or what?

I'm not sure what Sonnon's earlier material is, I've never met him. I practice exercises that I've learned, modified and created for many years that make up the bulk of my solo practice.

I have a definite body method, and all my methods of physical training are organized around these central principles.

I don't do much in the way of conventional exercises (push ups, common "core" work, calisthenics etc.) I don't use any equipment.

My method has a distinct Yoga influence (I began practicing Yoga when I was 12), a number of exercises I learned from gymnastics, and many exercises of traditional wrestling/grappling/BJJ/Judo.

Some of the more common and basic exercises that I teach in classes and seminars are included in my new "Ground Proofing" DVD. The more advanced exercises I use in my personal practice I don't teach in public or in general classes as they are, in general, too difficult for most to perform.

Tim, that sounds interesting. Can I ask a couple of questions?

1. What are the limitations of the conventional exercises you described that lead you to develop your own methods?

2. Do you teach your more advanced exercises privately? If they are too difficult for most people to perform, what kind of physical training would you recommend to develop the ability to learn these more advanced exercises?

Many thanks

Eric

""But I really don't get the marketing hype BS. He has apparently maid some false claims (see www.worldwidegrappling.com / MMA Saddle thread) about his titles, positions, experience, and so forth. He seems to need to rename things and then market the hell out of it to make his time worth while. I am not sure why he doesn't just do what he does without all the silliness.
He is the S&C coach for Alberto Crane and I wish them both th best. Scott has been VERY critical of MMA training, and MMA coaches in the past, so it will be interesting to see his approach and the end result. ""

RE: Marketing; he seems to have a better info:bs ratio than most of the bigger names in this business

RE: Crane; see the blog. I have no way of knowing whether or not Crane will win, but it does seem as though he is becoming better prepared.

RE: MMA Training; if you mean physical preparedness, I think that he has every right to be. Until a few years ago, almost all fighters were training like retards. Most still are. Very few trainers that train these guys are qualified to do so, and I doubt many of them do the measurements and record keeping and analysis that coach Sonnon does.

RE: Coaches; not sure if this is one and the same? If technical coaching, I am not sure what he might be saying.

RE: His approach and results; You are seeing his approach, he is making it totally public. The results question is two fold. All Sonnon can do is prepare Alberto Crane to the best of his abilities, physically. If he loses the match because he totally gases out or gets over-powered, then yes, Scott is either full of •••• or did not have enough time to make enough difference. However, if Alberto gets caught with some wild punch... we can't say he lost because of conditioning.

Hi Eric,

Well, it's not so much conventional exercises have inherent limitations, it depends on the results you are looking for.

For example, most simple bodyweight exercises don't provide enough resistance to increase strength beyond a moderate level, and will eventually become high repetition endurance exercises. I don't believe in doing high numbers of repetitions of any exercise, I don't believe the time invested is worth the returns.

I am also adverse to doing certain exercises for strength, others for endurance and still others for flexibility. And once the "conditioning" is done, a fighter still has to work the "form" of specific movements of his techniques.

One of my goals in designing the method that I follow was to combine the various elements of fitness with movement patterns applicable to the martial techniques I use. Saves time and allows for more focus in training. I don't practice any separate strength training with equipment, I don't practice linked "forms," I don't do any other "cardio."

The basic exercises I teach are fairly common (well, at least some of them) and they are enough for most people to develop the physical attributes necessary to spar and fight. Many of my students train outside the school with equipment (Kbells, weights etc.) and I'm all for that, it's the individual's choice. For those interested, at a certain level of fitness I'll teach the more advanced exercises.

Hi Tim

Would you say that the 24 tien gen of Gao Bagua fit the description of movements where you get strength, cardio, flexibility etc from?


Tobias

Tim,
"I'm not sure what Sonnon's earlier material is.."

Well, you gave a fairly positive response to his Grappler's Toolbox a few years ago and said that you used some of his stuff.

Some of the philosophy you're espousing above seems to go in the general direction that Sonnon has taken with the grappler's toolbox/prasara yoga material.

Interesting.

Tobias,

The Tian Gan exercises would fit that description, if done with low stances and extended postures.

Dave,

I like the Grappler's Toolbox, if that qualifies as Sonnon's earlier material I recommend it.

I doubt I'm as familiar with Sonnon's material as you are, but from what I've seen advertised, it looks as though he has separated yoga practice from grappling drills from swinging clubs.

In my philosophy and practice nothing is separate, as I explained above.

Interesting you would think we have a similar philosophy.

Thanks for info Tim

Tim,
Well, his yoga and grappling drills go together to some extent. Here's an example:
Prasara yoga for grappling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlxfIfEVqc0

But you're right about some of his other stuff being a bit more separated.

He seperates it to make more money. He claims to be all about combinging ideas and theories, and perhaps heis personal lessons are, but DVD marketing wise....totally different things. Too bad. I bet he still could make a good living selling top quality in lieu of top quantity!
Jake

Dave,

Thanks for the link. He moves very well, but the exercises look like solo grappling drills. To me the Yoga component is not so evident.

Hi Tim

Thanks for answering my questions. I am constantly trying to improve my physical training methods. I also prefer to work without equipment and naturally am very curious about your take on exercise. I was very interested in your response. Naturally this raised more questions!

You said you do not like to do separate exercises for strength and endurance. How do you achieve these attributes together given that strength is generally achieved with high-resistance, low repetition and endurance is the opposite? Or do you focus on strength rather than endurance?

I was surprised to read you don't do cardio. Is this because you fight long enough on a regular basis to maintain good cardio, or does your physical training develop cardio as a secondary benefit?

Finally, could you elaborate on the Yoga influence to your method? Is this for breath control and elimination of unnecessary tension while exercising? Do you recommend any particular type of yoga?

Thanks again,

Eric

sometimes it also helps to clarify terminology.

I often say I don't 'do cardio', but to many powerlifters I train with, a ten minute set of KB snatches or sled dragging is precisely that.

To an aerobics instructor, both are 'strength training' exercises.

Also, when I think of Sonnon's "yoga" i often think of this;

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=YK6CGtViWg8&feature=related

my original point was for you guys to check out hwo he explains what he's doing with Alberto Crane, which I found VERY informative.

I saw his early grappling vids. Good information in a very obtuse package.

Its not that he didn't speak in three word sentences - its that he tried to sound like he was hyper-educated by coming up with gobbledy-gook psuedo scientific terms to sound "all that."

When you are constantly referring to the two guys presenting your material as "bio-mechanical agents" versus "these two guys," and teaching what are admittedly solid Judo gripping and kuzushi basics that were not at all revolutionary - it can be off putting.

There was some issue over at the Underground I think where he was supposedly caught posting under different names, stirring up debates about his own products.

He TOTALLY lost me with his absolute BS "groundfighting versus multiples" stuff.

Good floor exercises for grappling development maybe, but he was trying to sell them - with a straight face and apparently in all seriousness - as legitimate combative ground skills against multiple attackers. Craptastically bad, almost the same thing as the Systema groundfighting vs multiples garbage that is out there.

Since then Scott seems to have altered his approach to a more developmental training paradigm which sounds like it is pretty good. Good for him.