• Archive through May 15, 2008 May 15 - 12:17 pm [20]

number one is standard high pulling 'kuzushi'

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=kFaKlEf6m4k

Hey Backarcher,

How you coming along with this throw?

Thanks for asking. I got together with my judo coach and we are working the kinks out.

Oh, Jason...you are right!

BA,

I'm look forward to your take on the matter.

About the leg capture/trap aspect, are you familiar with kuntao or silat?

My kung fu instructors use to show us leg techniques where they capture the foot and use their horse (stances) to grind in to destroy the opponent's structure. I don't see this much in today's kung fu styles, but the kuntao and silat systems still use it.

Just thought I'd share some ideas.

Yes, some refer to it as seizing. It's also used in freestyle wrestling. Especially, with ankle picks.

Like Jason mentioned, some of those concepts are very difficult to pull off without a wealth of practice. But there are some basic tatics that work with very little practice.

The concept is similar to this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=hgB5UxKaKtw

Cool, thanks BA.

The only reason I brought up the kuntao/silat/kung fu leg method stuff is because of your earlier question regarding what CMA does after taking the opponent down. I just feel that its a forgotten aspect in CMA as seen today. My wing chun friends hate it when I say stuff like that.

I get it. Cool!

Gene's ankle pick would be called o uchi to ko uchi gari (makikomi) in Judo and would be considered cheap (read; effective) judo by traditionalists and must-know by european competitors. I adore that entire series of videos (i think that you introduced me to them 2-3 years ago!). I now use the Russian two on one extensively with 'traditional' players.

thanks Archer. It's always good to be validated. Somewhere around brown belt or so in Judo, people learn how not to get suckered. ~ 500-1000 mat hours it takes (with no prior experience).

"...Beat them with what they don't know..."

That's a quote from Gene Lebell.

In my experience, I've found that even highly skilled Judo blackbelts can be "suckered" when you exposed them to what they don't know.

This is how I've survived on the mat with guys who have a lot better "Judo" than me.

Sometimes, to get good at something you must totally attached yourself to that one thing. The downside is your mind often narrows and you close yourself off to other things.

Many times very good Judokas have limited experience with wrestling beyond high school level tactics, Chinese wrestling concepts, Sambo and BJJ.

So, I often dip in my bag of "tricks" and sucker them into something they haven't been exposed to.

My difficulty when it comes to high level Judo players is not the throw itself, but gripping. Some people don't get that you can have the best throws in the world, but if you are not good at grip fighting an average judoka with decent grip fighting will embarrass you!

I choose not to spend a lot of time perfecting my gripping for it has little carry over to anything else I'm interested in. It's sort of like starting from your knees in BJJ. OK for BJJ, but it is of little use anywhere else.

I find my Greco handfighting and pummeling are much more universal.

learning the grip is the only way to really defend against it though.

and people dont walk around naked, they usually have some thing you can grip.

that is unless you are fighting someone in slips or shirtless.

"...people dont walk around naked..."

I don't care if they did, by focusing on greco wrestling control ties, I don't need any heavy duty cloth to execute my throw. As long as they have a torso, shoulder, neck and arms, I have a control grip.

No offense Robert, but for years I've hated that analogy, "...people dont walk around naked..."

People often use it when talking about MMA also. I've been doing this stuff for more years than I can count and I've never trained shirtless or trained with anyone else shirtless.

The people I train with usually wear in training what they most likely would wear outside of training.

I talked to police officers about this. They said most assaults were inside in house or building in the winter and outside in the summer. So, the likelihood that they are going to be wearing a big heavy duty parka that's as strong as a judogi is slim. Even though my Judo coach still uses that "...people dont walk around naked..." analogy to his students.

Wrestling handfighting is something that the LEO I trained have to use on the job daily.

Pummeling and handfighting happens in more realistic situations.

The only place where you will ever see Judo grip fighting is in Judo or a BJJ match.

Another reason I don't like gripfighting is that you are training yourself to stand in the "dangerzone" (where someone could punch you)and extending your arms. This is the most dangerous zone in an MMA or real fight. In that zone, I want to be either hitting or controlling his head, shoulders or arms. You need to be all the way out or all the way in...not in the middle.

What the Judogi does for me is allow me to be more creative in my throws. I've learn to do about 95% of Judo throws without a gi. I could not of thought up some of the throws without seeing it done with a gi first.

So in the end, I focus on controlling the man rather than the cloth.

Backarcher,
Great post. Made me think about the "dangerzone" aspect of grip fighting - thank you.

I'm reading (again) William A. Martell's book, "Greco-Roman Wrestling." Just a FYI to folks out there, if you don't have it, you should pick it up. My personal opinion, it's one of the best books written on martial arts.

Good training,
Joe

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