I'm thinking about this for my site. I want to compare 4 common unarmed pins, to 4 common Aikido pins.

I'm trying to figure out the best choices for unarmed pins.

I'm thinking:

1. Top mount
2. Side mount
3. Scarf hold
4. North south

Just the hold, not a submission. A position that is common and easy (relatively) to hold someone down with.

Any suggestions?

"Knee on belly" is my number one choice for real fighting.

I always teach and train to throw...and immediately go to "knee on belly". It's a more flexible and mobile control position or pin. Lots of options.

I like to go for the break quickly, id go with 5, knee on upper arm, break the elbow. fight is over.

Though to me it would make more sense to go for the break while standing via spinning armbar, since im not very well versed on the ground.

I usually go for top mount, trying to get the hooks in. and there is always the option to switch to side mount.

But like i said, i sort of suck on the ground... lool I like throwing people on the ground better.

my brother's used a modified version of side control when they worked as prison guards. it was rare that they went to the ground when things got out of hand. i think it only happened once. they never used the guard and it would've been hard to justify breaking limps. it's apparenlty easier to justify striking an inmate. They mostly used strikes and maintained the top in order to subdue and restrain the inmates.

Thats an interesting fact.

I always thought, from what I've seen, that sheriff's or prison guards or whatever, used more joint locks then strikes, but i guess its all up to preference since both they can get away with.

I've train LEO for many years and they "very rarely" use strikes. Mostly locking and takedowns, to knee on neck or knee on back.

i think there's a difference between someone who's under arrest and someone who's been convicted of a serious crime and is in a maximum security prison.

"Very rarely" is relative. They are trained NOT to strike. Anyone who has been arrested will tell you they don't usually do what they are trained to do;) Joint manipulation is VERY difficult to pull off on a standing, resisting opponent!
Jake

Most arrests are "passive aggressive". Simply grabbing an arm or wrist and putting it behind their back make up about 90% of arrests. It's not as glamorous as most people think. I'll be training with a group of officers in about an hour from now. I'll ask them how often they use strikes. They will probably laugh at me.

"No laughing matter"!

Abdullah, your brother was right. At least according to the LEOs I work with.

They said most situations are mostly "passive" resistance, requiring just putting their arms in an easy restraint position.

Yet, once the activity starts to escalate more often than not, most "poorly" trained officers(which are most)will begin striking.

Most strikes are done to the thighs or when they are already pinned to the ground and unwilling to give the officers their hands.

So, I stand corrected!

Okay, I'll weigh in here:

Knee to belly, "cobra wrap," over on to stomach - controls both hands so weapons and striking are not an issue. Beware maintaining knee to belly as groin grabs are common.

"Breaking an elbow" is by no means a fight ender with someone seriously wanting to fight, and especially when they have drugs like meth on board.

Beware putting the hooks in, especially in shoes (boots for LE), that slows you down if you have to disengage quickly (multiples).

Standing locks work well on those not interested in a real fight with officers, and those who do care if they get hurt. They are pretty much useless against those that WANT a fight, and don't care if they get hurt.

But since even most resistive arrests are NOT fights, but rather the tensive resistance (it is NOT passive, but intended to defeat control measures - it just isn't combative), locks can work. Essentially they are a reminder that things will get much worse if they continue to fight.

Strikes are routine and perfectly justified, and are very much trained for when the resistance becomes active, or starts to verge into combative.

If you are unable to control a subject using come-along holds, joint locks, etc. it is absolutely acceptable to raise your level of force by using striking, or going to the Taser.

SOME agencies are overly restrictive due to lawsuits, etc. but this is by no means par for the course. In the vast majority of agencies striking is taught and perfectly acceptable. A bad guy is pulling his arms underneath him - knee strikes to the thighs as mentioned above, elbow strikes and punches to the body, etc. until he gives up his hands is very common in my experience for officers without much grappling skill, and I have trained with, been taught by, and seen extensive field and training examples from officers from across the country.

Good post,Kit!

As usual.

Great post kit, good point about getting the hooks in with shoes, i never thought of that. I most likely wouldnt use the hooks in a streetfight, since from his back i could just pound away.

If i were a cop, i wouldnt grapple at all unless i had to, i'd just bust out the tazer. I think law enforcement, and people in general should focus and invest more on non lethal weapons.

Robert

That is actually a problem....guys are becoming Taser dependent, and less decisive at hands on. It happened with pepper spray as well.

I think the Taser is an awesome tool, but it doesn't always work, and is not a replacement for solid hand to hand skills - or a willingness to close with the suspect.