Oops, missed your post. Frank Gomez taught the class. Do you know of him?

he is from Chang Tung Sheng lineage, isn't he?

Timber,

He never claimed to know vital points striking, he called it a dead art. He said he met people who claimed to know it. He taught Judo and said it was was the superior art, so where is his bias against Japanese styles? I don't believe anyone has disproven qualifications or expertise of the people he claimed to be masters.

Of course, everyone has their own tastes in writers. I like the literary references and all that. But I don't think he's a fraud.

I never said he was a fraud. I think he head an overblown sense of his own skills when it seems like all he did was tai ji push hands. Also, I think he was a bit of a moony in the way he described "internal". He made it sound mystical and not attainable by most.

The opinions were probably mostly those of his teachers.

I know of Gomez. One of Jeng Shing Ping's students. There is really only one person to train Shuai with in NYC, so I though that was who it was.
Thanks
Jake

He definitely is a proponent of the internal arts, and is critical of people who he feels aren't good practitioners. I can see how his tone can be sharp sometimes. I don't recall him writing a thing about his own skills, though, only the people he met, etc.

I checked out a book from the library on bagua by robert smith, i remember reading that he enjoyed pushing things with his clavicles, whatever that means, lol. I kid, i know what it means, it just sounds funny. Anyway.

His book wasnt that bad, he had an actual bagua teacher in it. It was a while back i forgot the bagua practitioners name.

I got knocked backwards on hard floor the other day. I executed the rear "judo" breakfall on instinct which nvlved slapping the floor with both hands.

My godamn hands got hurt. Did the slapping save me from possible damag? Maybe. Slapping a non-matted surface hurts like hell. I'm for the sj way of falling now

"save you from possible damag?" no judo slam can send you to Vietnam?

Tim, it looks like this thread has gone on for some time without really answering your questions.
First, I have rarely seen anyone slap fall on You Tube or in a dojo when being thrown to an IPPON. I have gone to a month’s worth of Judo so my direct experience is limited. But I have spent some time on the net. From my practice slapping seems to leave you open to your opponent landing on you. Moreover, there is the issue of timing and the potential for jamming your shoulder reaching back. There are some cases where someone messes your timing up by holding you on the way down.
The Shuai Jiao way of falling, does protect you against injury to the arm, body and of course head. In the event someone falls on you, you’re already covered from a wayward elbow doing damage. And if you fall outside in crowd of people (like a bus) you can land “comfortably” and without hitting other that are falling too. If your head is protected you don’t have to worry about waking up with a headache and someone going through your wallet. Off the soft mats, it is really better. While begs the question, if Jiu Jitsu was originally used by the Samurai in battle how did they fall if dismounted?
And your second question, I am, as everyone here should be “a little biased!” I believe that Shuai Jiao is the better “throwing art.” There are many more throws, sweeps and takedowns than I have seen defined in my research on Judo. Some are similar to Judo but use a different methodology and have a multitude of variations. However, there are no sacrifice throws or ground techniques. When training or practicing throws, each is fully committed so the other is going to have to practicing falling. As for conditioning I got to give Judo player’s credit, they work hard.

Strange,

They didnt teach breakfalls any different when i was taking shuai jiao...

What do they do thats so different?

They do not reach their arms out. They tuck their arm to their head as if covering.

George,
All throwing arts are pretty much the same bro. Their is no "better" anything. Do not fall into the Chinese mindset that their arts are "better" just because it is Chinese! It all comes down to the teacher, not the art.

Jake

Ah,

Thanks for clarifying, thats interesting.

I was told by my first judo teacher that the arm is extended to prevent shoulder and neck jamming, and to break the fall.

I can see how the sj version may help prevent you from knocking your head on the ground.

Oh well, some throws are just killer, no matter what breakfall you do. Hope no one has to go through that. lol


Cheers guys.

Fundamentals of a break fall:
tuck the chin (paramount)
curve the body
do not hold the breath
do not reach out and try to stop or retard the fall (gravity will win each time), accept it and dissipate as much as possible.

Cheers
Jake

Except when it is Tim "helping" you do the ground. Then you are S.O.L

Except when it is Tim "helping" you do the ground. Then you are S.O.L

The ONLY thing you can do is tuck, duck, and roll!!!

Good one Martin! Now go practice damnit!
Jake

"I believe that Shuai Jiao is the better “throwing art.”

I know that Mongolian Wrestling is great preparation for Sumo competition.

Are there any SJ wrestlers competing in Judo competitions?

(Shuaijiao and Judo are both beautiful arts, I think arguing supremacy for either is silly.)

"Are there any SJ wrestlers competing in Judo competitions?"

A number of Chinese and Mongolian medalists in Judo, Greco, &c, grew up doing SJ, and Li Baoru helps coach the Chinese Olympic Judo team:

http://shuaijiao.tv/?p=128

Of course anyone who wants to compete at a high level in any sport, even coming from a similar one, must undergo very specific training.

Well Jake, the question that started the thread, i took it as, which do well feel is better. As we all know in martial arts it is either subject to opinion or the actual artist. As far as my statement, I left out was that my "opinion" as based on the volume of throws and that winning in competiton is based solely on non sacrifical throws without any ground techniques.

As for SJ in Judo, there are some that do in this country that do go to Judo competitions. The rules are different so its not like we could walk on and win everything. It would be easier for Judo player to compete in a SJ tournment than the other way around. But a large number of Chinese that have done SJ before competiting internationally in Judo. I think that there are probably more Judo competitions than SJ wrestlers in the US.

And Jake your correct that the term better art is useless. However since the rise of BJJ, MMA and cagefighting, I have heard that stated a lot. Maybe it might be under certain criteria, it certainly seems like. But limited to just throwing Shuai Jiao 'might' have the edge.

One more thing, the "Chinese mindset is that is their arts are older" not better. I always found that the American practicers of Asian arts thought all things from their art were better.

At end of the day keep practicing your falls, the ground never gets tired.