Tim-
You seem to have a lot of knowledge on topics you may not be personally practicing. I believe Catch-as-Catch-Can is one of the great lost arts. I see it is popular again but like the lost art of Pancrase it has been redefined from its original definition. Can you explain what real Catch-as-Catch-Can is? It seems like something you would incorporate into Shen Wu if it was of an oriental nature

Haven't you checked out Matt Furey's sites yet, or do you just want Tim's opinion on Catch wrestling? I suggest that you go out and buy the first six issues of G.A.I.N. (Grappling Arts International Newsletter). In the first or second issue, Matt gives a good review of one of Tim's books. In G.A.I.N., Matt covers all sorts of grappling styles, but has focused on catch wrestling lately now that he's become a student of Karl Gotch.

If you're interested in what's new in the grappling scene, then I'd recommend subscribing to Submission Fighter. It just gets better and better w/each issue. Plus it's cheaper than G.A.I.N.

Thanks Abdullah-
Didn't go to the other links on Tim's site after looking at at the VING TSUN KUNG-FU site. For some reason I believe VING TSUN KUNG-FU is a mercy link.

For more info on Catch wrestling I'd take Abdullah's advice and link to Matt's site. As far as I know, his teacher Carl Gotch is the most knowledgeable catch wrestler alive today.
(just as in real life, some connections are sincere, some are merciful and some are political).

Hey Abdullah,

I'm in the first edition of Submission Fighter. (Actually Danny Ives is triangling me in the finals of the J.B.A Submission Classic). It's a good magazine.

Macaco fino

Macaco's in da house!!!

Really. Guess I'll have to get that issue back from Russ and take another look at it.

Have you seen issue #4? It's got kick ass interviews w/Royce and Rigan. I said it before and I'll say it again. that mag gets better and better w/each issue.

Hey Abe (if you're interested),
If you're in the Orange County (California) area, then why not give Tim a call -- he & some of his other animal friends (I'm smiling as I write this guys) often get together for some catch-as-catch-can submission grappling just for fun. You can learn a lot from Tim & Glen (Glen ties people up like a pretzel in a matter of seconds). When I visited this fun time it was on Saturdays (check to see if it's still the case) -- it was always free & sometimes painful (it was another eye-opener for me; as Clint Eastwood said, "Man's gotta know his limitations."). They're all a fun bunch -- it's like walking into a comedy club without having to pay a cover charge (but audience participation is mandatory). {:o)

Has anyone picked up this book by Jake Shannon called The Authoratative Encyclopedia of Scientific Wrestling? Both the author and his book look very interesting. Just curious.

http://www.lulu.com/sciwrestling

Has anyone read Ned Beaumont's book "Kill-As-Catch-Can: Wrestling Skills for Streetfighting"?

Like his other book "Championship Streetfiting: Boxing As A Martial Art" I think it is pretty good.

I liked the "Kill as Catch Can" book.

"Real Catch" is more of a concept than style. Your goal is to submit the man where he is while maintain a dominating position. The difference from many concepts is that you are not looking for a particular submission, but you look at a limb and say, "how can I cause the most damage to this limb?" Rather it be with a bend or twist or pressure, your aim is to cause pain. It doesn't have to be a submission you learn in Judo or BJJ 101, it could come from your imagination. But you have to know the mechanics of the joint you are attacking. What it can and can't do.
Also, as he moves or reacts you "flow" into another lock based off his reaction.

Sometimes, you see weird looking "locks" in photos of catchwrestling. It's weird for it wasn't exactly planned. It's just where they ended up.

This is truly the basic concept of any good grappler, yet many get sucked into the concept that they can only go from this popular submission to that popular submission, but they miss many beats in between.

Many of these submissions are not submissions you can go straight for like a kimura or an armbar, but they are submissions based upon the unique reaction of your opponent and your ability to improvise a submission.

So many times you see a grappler getting attached to one single submission, instead of flowing with his reactions and improvising a submission from where he goes.

Some submissions are more common in catch than others and people see "the submission" and think that is "catch". No, that's a single submission hold.

"Catch" is a concept, attitude and philosophy.

It can be beautiful or ugly, nonetheless effective.

Matt Furey was intoduced to Catch by Tony Cecchine. Then, Matt went to Kotch and then Matt left Kotch.

Who knows the legitimacy of anyone else, but the concept is sound if you really get it.

But the most important concept about "Catchwrestling" is WRESTLING!!!

First, you have to learn basic wrestling. Pure basic folk and freestyle wrestling. That is your base. Without that, you are just doing submission wrestling or BJJ.

You "wrestle" your way to a submission.

For those interested in some great stories about the training and abilities of old school catch wrestlers, I recommend the Lou Thez autobiography "Hooker."

A nice old clip on Catch-As-Catch-Can Wrestling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m29kosKl6VE