I'm not wearing any panties.

I dunno... i can do adapted xing yi techniques just fine from a seated position, or on my knees etc and i just can't see any non contrived situation against non-skilled opponent/s where groundfighting skills are of any use.

Thanks for the nightmares Tim.

chris,

on your knees? the mind boggles...

best...

Chris,

Your point is valid assuming the ONLY opponent you'll EVER meet in a noncontrived situation is non-skilled. But if you're walking into a Denny's with your mother on Easter and a thug who has spent most of his life fighting tries to snatch her purse...well then, wont she have mixed feelings; first seeing you valiantly intervene only to flop around on the floor like a catfish out of water while being beaten like a
Harbor seal.

I can envisage a number of scenarios; the wearer of the the handbag may be in dispute, as well as good ol mom's scrapping abilities and my interest in saving her from a good old thrashing.

However assuming your version of events is near the mark, i'm not 'teet'ering over having to deal with a seasoned thug. To paraphrase, if some-one wants to put their dead meat on me (save a rather large leg of ham for example)....

As far as i'm concerned all that is in doubt, is if Gene Lebell or Helio Gracie are at Denny's, take a shine to Mom and make some lewd comments in her direction, that if i'm pressed to do the gentlemanly thing, i may have trouble 'not' resisting their leathery touch.

This is of course, pure fantasy as mom never takes me anywhere anymore even at easter.

ok, chris, not too darn bad! i liked your turn of language in your post. i haven't always understood the angle you take in your repostes,
but i got your inversions this time.

thanks (difficult week), i needed that.

sorry, forgot to add: thanks bob#2 for your posts. reading the site, i've missed your posts lately. and chris, now i know to read you like jonathan swift (that's a compliment).

sorry,but in spite of your clever responses still think the old boy is wasting his time. Why go to the ground anyway? so some friend of his can hit you over the head with a bottle while you are rolling around on the street? Besides if he really can kick, punch, and do throws so well what does he need it for? I stand by my statement, poor tim, sad tim, what would vince think and his xing yi brothers think? ha ha ha, poor poor tim

You don't go to the ground on purpose. You just find yourself there.

The easiest way to end up on the ground is not to train for groundfighting.

Kenpo instructor & part-time security guard Jay McEwing found himself on the ground while fighting for control of a pistol that was pulled on him a few years ago -- while witnesses watched. I doubt that Mr. McEwing had much if any ground-grappling experience. He had no back-up. No one else joined in on one side or the other. He was eventually shot in the neck & bled out -- not long before he was to be married. If he hadn't have bled out after being shot, do you think that he would agree with those who state that the learning of grappling skills is a waste of time? Who knows... maybe, but I doubt it.

Some people have awakened to find themselves under attack (in bed). Ground-grappling methods may be useful in such situations. Since mere struggle will soon cause a sapping of one's energy, having relaxed, skillful technique is a plus. It's no guarantee of success, but it's better than running out of energy and being at the mercy of a vicious, merciless animal.

Personally I don't care if some people don't want to learn martial arts in general or ground-grappling techniques specifically -- I just care that they have considered it well prior to making their decision(s), for I dislike it when "innocent" people are hurt due to a lack of knowledge. But kay sara sara...

The whole point about ground fighting is this - however good you are at fighting on your feet, you CANNOT guarantee that you are going to be able to avoid going down. If you are sufficiently arrogant to believe otherwise, then you need to take a long hard look at the lack of reality in your training. Try challenging your local judo black belts to a friendly "you can't get me on the ground" bout and see how long you last before you hit the deck........

Yyyyeppp!

One good foot-sweep &...(he go boom on the ground).

Samba King,
I've gone over this on the board before, but I'll explain it again for you (I know sometimes when you are just starting out it is difficult to understand some of the history and concepts of the arts). Sometimes it's a good idea to listen to people with actual experience.

For some reason you are threatened by the fact that I can fight on the ground, and that people who train in Xing Yi Quan have no need for ground techniques, presumably because they could never be taken down. Here's the fact, Traditional Xing Yi Quan includes ground fighting techniques. The Chinese term for the groundwork is "Di Long Jing." Unfortunately, it is rare to find these days. I first saw it in the early 90's in Beijing. Liang Ke Quan had one of his students demonstrate some of the ground techniques on me. It is relatively simple, direct, and aims at defending then getting back up (as street grappling should). Liang said the reason the old time Xing Yi Quan fighters practiced Di Long Jing was because "you need to defend yourself if you are on the ground."

It's too bad you weren't around back in the day. You could have straightened out all the old masters (who really trained and fought, as opposed to advertising their insecurities on the net) and explained to them the folly of training to be well rounded fighters.

yes you have convinced me of the error of my
ways. thank you tim, I have never done any
actual training like you. I believe that chinese martial arts have "ground" training. But the problem with the crap you are doing is that they set out trying to go to the ground. Of course almost anyone could end up being sweeped or thrown and you could find yourself in that situation. By the way, while you are busy "on the net" just like me, the old masters would have been training

Ground grappling no, ground fighting yes (look no hands mom).

Out of all my fights and every person I know who was in a fight, never had I heard of some martial artist looking for or starting a fight - at the pub or on the street.

It's usually just a regular guy in need of anger management or money for his next hit(or God forbid an ambush with a weapon or 5 friends).

dear samba king
you and people like you are the reason martial arts suck. while some people are trying to figure out what works and what dosen't you are at home dreaming of the day your pi ch'uan really works. you make me sad, and i hope you some day find the humility to come into the world and see what is happeing. further more i hope you die a violant death at the hands of a bjj blue belt.

Looks like we have established that groundfighting skills are of use and that they exist in TCMA (can't teach an old dog boxer new tricks), however the whole BJJ/TCMA is better than the other debate is crap.

Sorry..., what i meant to say is Bob #2 is a nancy boy.

Hey

"Sorry..., what i meant to say is Bob #2 is a nancy boy. "

well durrr

stc