Do you practice standing postures ?

Tim's Discussion Board: Qi Gong / Power Training : Do you practice standing postures ?

   By Mark Hatfield on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 11:39 am: Edit Post

To Jeff Meyer

When I first experimented with standing I used 'wu ji' natural stand, arms hanging at my sides. I did this only three times a week and worked up to one hour. I received significant benefit long befor I reached the time goal. I continued it until it had stabilized and there were no longer changes in my body.

I think you should start with that position, it is very good for developing balance, and relaxed 'looseness'. This position greatly developed my body awareness. The first thing it did was teach me to use only those muscles necessary to stand without unconsciously involving other muscles.

Forget about alignments in this position, just relax into the stance.

To Elliot Hall

The eight positions shown by Diepersloots book are simply variations of the three circle post. Other sources I have found show others including 'cat' stances, deep crouching, and strongly slanting stances. I have read that the Yichaun founder included sitting and laying positions as well, but the second and third generation modified things quite a bit.


   By Elliott Hall on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 01:25 pm: Edit Post

>The eight positions shown by Diepersloots book
> are simply variations of the three circle post.

Bear in mind that that book is by no means authoritative.

Those are just some versions of basic jianshenzhuang. There are quite a few of them, and with skill you can make your own. They work different aspects, so they are really only all the same in the sense that they are all jianshenzhuang.

> Other sources I have found show others
> including 'cat' stances,

Jijizhuang, the 'cat' being Hunyuanzhuang, Santizhuang, and a few others.

> deep crouching, and...

Fuhuzhuang, among others.

> strongly slanting stances.

Xianglong zhuang. My personal favorite. :-)

There are also ones like du li zhuang and a version of xianglongzhuang on one foot that I don't know the name of.

> I have read that the
> Yichaun founder included sitting and laying
> positions as well, but the second and third
> generation modified things quite a bit.

Yes and no. Some eliminated them, but they are getting away from yiquan in doing so. Others, such as the Yao brothers, just don't emphasise them as much, but still definately teach them. I practice the sitting postures at work in my spare time. It helps to have a rigid chair. I know Li Jianyu still teaches prone zhuang, but I havn't learned those yet. I would imagine I could figure them out given some effort, they are all basically the same thing.

My point here though is that they really have not changed much, so the modern distinction is something of a misnomer. As long as the principals remain, the specifics are less important. One should definately emphasise Chengbaozhuang and Tibaozhuang when starting out though, as they demonstrate the principals most obviously.

Congratulations on your accomplishment, BTW. That's about how long it took me for everything to fall into place properly as well.


   By Bruce Ingham on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 01:39 pm: Edit Post

Someone help me out here!

I've done post standing inconsistently over many years. I noticed health improvements during a rather consistent period which was a greater sense of well being, but this practiced included moving forms. I've been able to do Wuji for up to 20 mins. Most of the posture training though has been concerned with developing rooting.

So my questions are:

1. What is the mind suppose to be doing while standing? I usually approach this as a meditation process.

2. I find my feet and lower leg go numb while standing. Any insight?

3. What is the benefit of post standing to martial skill?


   By SBonzak on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 11:43 am: Edit Post

Tim-

You posted above that "So basically the two variations of post training emphasize stability and focus of power and intent while staionary and while in motion."

Two questions. (1) In your opinion, would someone who practiced only circle walking (moving post) get the same results in terms of useful connectedness and whole body power (peng jin) as (a) someone who practiced stationary postures alone, or as (b) someone who practices both stationary and moving post?

(2) What skills do the practice of stationary postures lead to that cannot be developed by circle walking?

Thanks.

-Steve


   By Tim on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 12:19 pm: Edit Post

Steve,
I think that someone who practiced moving posts on the circle could develop whole body power and stability without stationary standing, but, in general, practicing stationary postures will speed up the process, especially for beginners.

Those who primarily hold stationary postures still need to practice some kind of 'moving posts,' (the 'Friction Stepping' of Yi Quan for example) to develop the ability to maintain whole body connectedness and stability when they move.

There can be more variety when holding stationary postures as the placement of the feet and the positions of the torso can vary to a greater degree than the positions of moving postures.


   By SBonzak on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:00 am: Edit Post

Tim,
Thanks for the earlier reply. My next question is, do you have beginners start with stationary standing alone, or do they practice both at the same time during their development? What's the rationale for your preference? And if you have beginners practice stationary standing first, is there some kind of benchmark they must attain before starting moving post training?

-Steve


   By Tim on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:41 pm: Edit Post

It depends on the system the student chooses. All of my Xing Yi students are taught to stand in San Ti Shi in the first class. But I also teach them basic stationary exercises right away, and they begin to learn the Elements after a couple of weeks of practice. I believe standing and movement exercises should be practiced simultaneously from the start. I think the practice of one reinforces the the other (as long as both are correctly done).

It is pretty much the same for Ba Gua Zhang practice. In my combined classes, students learn alignment exercises and there is alot of attention to posture, but no formal 'standing' practice at all (although attention to correct alignment is always emphasized, even during conditioning exercises).


   By some guy with a few questions. (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 01:57 pm: Edit Post

hello tim,

i just gotta say that you offer a great service here on this board, and its a privilage.

i have been reading this thread and a few other's, i have a few questions if i may;)

you said that at first, the legs will be very shaky during zhan zhuang, and as you progress, the shaking will go away, does this mean that i should go into a deeper more difficult stance? ive seen pictures of various positions and i have been told that the knees should be over the areas of the instep/ball of foot, so what about this guy, is this wrong?

http://www.fightingarts.com/content00/graphics/kibas7.jpg


as opposed to this

http://alexng.net/fsuwushu/reference/horse.jpg

ive also seen a more casual relaxed posture such as this one

http://www.worldtaichiday.org/photos/TCIMAGES.HorseStnc.jpg

so what is your take on this?

also, during zhan zhuang training, should i be more focused on sinking and becoming heavy, or should i be more focused on being balanced.

and one more thing, should i try to add weight to my stance training? do you think this will be bad for the joints and back?

thanks.

p.s. any feedback from anyone will be appreciated.


   By Tim on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 06:01 pm: Edit Post

I think, in general it's best to start with higher and easier postures so that you can hold them long enough to focus on proper alignment, the balance of tension and relaxation, and your intent's link to your kinesthetic sense.

As you get stronger, holding lower or more difficult postures is fine, as long as you maintain the requisite alignments for good posture.

Some postures require more attention to balance (like standing on one leg for example), some are more about correcting alignment or to balance the stresses in the body. There is usuall always a balance between relaxing and sinking with feeling the head lifting and joints opening.


   By some guy. (Unregistered Guest) on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 03:48 pm: Edit Post

thanks tim,

hope to meet and train with you and your class someday,

until then, best wishes:-)


   By thankful guy (Unregistered Guest) on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 12:30 pm: Edit Post

tim,

what exactly do you mean by "opening the joints"?

thanks;)


   By Tim on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 06:22 pm: Edit Post

There is a constant, intent driven elongation of the torso and limbs, the Chinese refer to the resultant stretch as "opening" the joints.


   By tim wannabe (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 02:33 pm: Edit Post

got it, thanks tim once again. A privilege as always


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