Soo true JD! u cant just assume to kick all the time. Those who do, will fail! I also agree with your theory on forms, they are the basics to using tkd fighting

90% of fights ending on the ground is a myth.

The 90% is true if the fight isnt broken up. nearly every fight and brawl i have seen has ended up on the ground with one person ontop of the other, this includes one of my mates who also does tkd. however i have seen the OCCASIONAL fight where it has not ended up on the ground, and out of these OCCASIONAL fights 50% would have been broken up. i know this is my opinion verse yours, however out of what i have seen and been involved with, i still back up the 90% figure.

Therefore, coming back to the mentalitly of just kicking, is a wrong one to take. Thats the main point i am emphasizing.

JD.

If you take a person either alot more skilled than another or alot bigger and stronger than the other, it will end with a ko, or somebody getting their hea dslammed through a glass window. WHat you saw was probably kids fighting.

Ummm no, i ensure you that when i go out clubbing i do not watch little kids fighting ... and you have just basically agreed with me that majority of fights will end on the ground by saying that the two fighters skill level will vary.. you've just contradicted yourself! having two different skill levels just enhances that one will end up on top of the other. It is extreemly rare that one will knock out another with one blow, especially if the two have some sort of fighting training.

I'd have to back enforcer, the 90% figure is a myth, and somewhere on this forum is a statistic from a regular poster(apparently a law-enforcement officer) quoting a study that indicates more of a 65% or so. Still way too much to discount groundfighting, but most fights I've seen in the past that didn't involve hidden weapons ended with a headshot (many of these were in prison and the street, not clubs).

On the other hand, since a fight ends with at least one of the participants going down for the count, you could say 100% of them end up on the ground.

There is no room in crowded clubs to fight on the grouns. Plus it is too painful with the hard ground and small steps, etc.

na not in the club,, talking bout outside on the streets. outside clubs/ walking past ,, etc.

Though we may see taekwondo as a $sign martial arts, it has many benefits. There are excellent people who participate and it is good sport. It is the 'capitalistic money making' stuff that turn me off. I have seen very good exponents in USA and Korea.
The Korean marines (ROK) are one of the best. Again method of training is lacking in USA as sport is the attraction.

Hwang Jang Li/Lee is one of the showcase experts.

First of all the original poster was beimg sarcastic.

Second, I don't remember the last time I haven't seen a fight go to the ground. The only time a fight doesn't go to the ground is if the people are totally mismatched in size(big guy gets KO shot in) or the two people have never been in a fight before and try to do what they see in the movies.

Karate is worth little in a fight. What a karate student does gain is the ability to throw better punches/kicks. American Boxing or any form of wrestling/grappling will win most fights. I would fight a black belt any day of the week rather then even an average boxer or good wrestler.

People got the impression that karate was this magical thing. That a black belt was this tough unbeatable creature. A black belt is something you buy, being tough is something you have inside you. There are people that no amount of karate training could make them tough. They will be tougher then their untrained self, but just because you have a black belt means little in my book. Karate students think too much, kata doesn't allow for the chaos of street/real fighting. No one on the street just stands there an lets you block punches and come back with some wild array of kicks and punches. He will grab you when you get close, headbutt you, bite you, choke you out etc.. Things that karate students have no idea how to handle.

I am not saying karate isn't a great sport and great for physical/mental development. I am saying that traditional karate, that people take at pay dojos with belts, are going really going to be fantastic fighters. I think the bruce lee illusion is stuck in peoples heads. I never did see bruce lee REALLY kick someones butt now that I think about it, have you??

Good point about Bruce Lee at the end of the previous post.

On the other hand, he had enough skill to impress people who had been in lots of street fights or had a great deal of decent martial training and keep them as students. For example, I don't think Dan Inosanto would have followed just anyone ...

I think wanting to be "bruce lee"(or some other iconic figure) is something that every martial artist who gets into the martial arts goes through.
Once I figured out I'm not going to be bruce lee I just ended up having a much better time whatever martial art I did. My dad is a great dancer but he is no world champion but he enjoys the lessons that he has with a world champion.

Exactly, people need to get into karate for the right reasons, not because of some hollywood image. Watch a professional karate fight and then watch Jet Li or Bruce lee in a movie. You wouldn't even call the two things remotely similar. Movie karate is nothing but a fighting dance, it is not real or even possible in the real world.

Unfortunately, kids watch the karate kid and sign up for lessons. Cheesy karate schools will then push them along and give them a black belt, when they have no right wearing a symbol of excellence of karate. Kind of like some bad high schools, that allow people to graduate, who can't even read/write on a jr. high level.

No idea what i'm complaining about lol. I guess I just get upset when people think that karate is meant to turn you into a street fighter. People argue which style will allow you to kick someones butt easier. Karate will turn a good street fighter into a better street fighter, but it won't make little ralph macchio a killing machine .

I think Micker's point is that if you are a sheep, all the black-belt/ninja/commando training in the world won't make you into a wolf, while a wolf can be naturally dangerous even without training. MA skills are like college educations: no matter how well developed, they can be castrated by an ineffective user.

You said it perfectly Ken .

Next time your in Pittsburgh P.A,,check out "Kevin Kaminski's Black Belt Academy" 2870 Talley Cavey RD Hampton {412}492-9998

He's a Taekwondo Genii...or try and take him on...

But if you do, you WILL get your ass handed to you...MMA,boxing,wresling...or not...


Then tell me that Taekwondo does'nt have any real street fighting merit...

Has Kevin ever heard of the UFC? He could make some easy money there.

Parav,

Why not give him a call?...or drop him a note?

I think you'll find that Mr. Kaminski, is a very reasonable man...I'm sure he'll be happy to answer any questions from you, or anybody else...

If you want to, get him a sponser for the UFC..

I won't speak for him, to say that he'd do it,..but he'd go far...

I'm happy to catch the discussion.I recently saw a home movie from the 50's on a roof top in Hong Kong of Bruce Lee fighting a faster more energetic opponant.Bruce was kicking butt 'but' wasn't kicking and it looked like Wing Chun he was doing.I think he was at an ealier learning phase.His stance was wide and he only fought the 'Center-line'.Bruce came around to alot of schools here in Sanfransisco way back when and my master had several opps to tango with him but there was always interference.---about TKD,...I have been humbled by excellent practitioners(a TKD women once axe-kicked my head into her cleavage).I have learned since to predict a kicking stance but if a kick can be hidden it can concer.I often spar with high ranking TKD and though I find I can adapt I never assume."...always expect the unexpected"-a Chinese proverb.

As far as I know, the few people I have hit who fell, ended on the ground.