Can you root on those things? I've been to a kwoon where they cover the floor with padding (for wushu jumps) and its too slippery to get a firm grip. Every time I follow step it ends up being an awkward slide. Similarly, in a judo padded room my feet sink half-way into the floor mat and stance can become really wobbly. Granted, if you were exceptionally good it shouldn't matter which surface you play on. But the fact is most CMA depend on root structure for power.

"But the fact is most CMA depend on root structure for power."

So do boxers.

The ground surface in the Octagon and other MMA rings is firm (quite a number of fighters have been knocked out from hard falls). Some Judo schools practice on thickly padded mats, but Judo and Ju Jitsu competitions are held on relatively hard mats as well.

But most pure boxers also lose in mma.

Maciej,

Whad Up? This particular thread was asking about the ability to root on a mat. Tim mentioned that boxers root on mats, ergo; Felix can probably develop the skill to do so as well.

You replied that most pure boxers also lose in mma...

Help me follow the non-sequitur here. Are you presupposing that MMA fighters don't have the ability to root, or don't root, but have supperior skills that overcome the boxers ability to root? Or that rooting alone isn't a key to fighting?

I know there are some assumptions or logical links in there somewhere, but your statement doesn't have clear relevance to the question at hand.

Complete this... Most boxers rely on root, but most pure boxers lose in mma, therefore... ????

Having a good root doesn't necessarily mean becoming momentarily static, as some Hungga and Goju practitioners. Boxers and what I've seen of Bagua and some bamboo forest mantis people have a highly mobile, very "alive" root. Training to fight on slippery ice is thought to be highly beneficial for developing proper movement in Ninpo Taijutsu.

Maciej,
??? Your statement had nothing to do with what we were discussing.

Felix wrote that most Chinese stylists rely on root for structure and it is hard on matted surfaces (like Ufc or mma for example), than Tim wrote so do boxers (rely on root). And since I thought felix was using that reason as part of the reason why CHinese stylists haven't done so well in mma, and Tim mentioned boxers, I said pure boxers also don't fare well in mma.

did you forget your meds this morning?

Nonsequitors aside I think it's an interesting thread.

I've been going down to a BJJ school to roll & work that ground-fighting thing & the place is all mats. The Tai chi school is all wood floors. Like night & day.

At TC I couldn't use any application to throw anyone or put them down & mats are obviously very useful. But the BJJ school also lacked something I felt. I know some of the BJJ guys go to boxing gyms, etc. to cross-train though.

I think on some days they give Muay Thai lessons on the mats. But wouldn't kicking & knees & punching be better trained on a hard surface? Does the perfect school have both? I know I would feel weird doing much TCC on those mats.

It's good to train on all kinds of surfaces. For example, if you have trouble "rooting" on a soft surface, that is a weakness in your technique that should be addressed (what if you get in a fight on a soft surface, sand or wet grass for example. It's good to at least occasionally spar on terrain you normally aren't accustomed to). But schools that emphasize a particular aspect of fighting will have facilities suitable to the types of techniques most often trained.

Since in real fights, at least one of the fighters will almost invariably hit the ground, most schools that emphasize realistic training will have some kind of padded flooring.

Out of curiosity, in terms of physical space how is the Shen Wu Academy designed?

Go back to 'shenwu.com' and click on 'Virtual Academy' most of the clips were filmed at the school.

The design is very cool. I'm not good at guessing square footage but I can tell you the walls are lined with giant, beautiful Chinese caligraphy scrolls. The main part of the floor is a jade green 'mat' consisting of 20 or 30 mats held tightly by a wooden frame. A couple of plants- a punching bag- a rack of sparring gear- a changing room, a restroom and an office in the back.

That's about it. There's no sales desk type of thing. Tim keeps everything tidy and clean. You don't have to worry much about ringworm and that kind of stuff at Shen Wu.

If you ever watched the first episode of 'The Black Sash' the director brought his set manager to Tim's school and he photographed everything and made basically a relica of Shen Wu for the show. They changed it slightly when they moved the production to Canada.

Wow... that's one thing I really liked about that show, was the beautiful school they got to train in :-P You lucky bastards, lol.

Dragonprawn,
We have relatively hard "tatami" style mats in about two thirds of the workout space, and hard floor in the other third. Beginners always fall on the mats. More advanced students can train on the hard floor.

We also have a two foot thick "crash mat" for practicing slams and high amplitude falls.

Thanks guys

Sounds cool & a bit different than what you'll usually run into.

i was wondering if anyone knows where to buy purchase or rent an octagon for fights and what is the actuall size of the octaon.

Hi my name is AL and my cousin works for the Carlson Gracie team in Chicago, and he is looking to buy an Octagon for training. I was wondering if you knew of any manufactures that sell them or if you know of anywhere to find one for sale? ....thanks alot if you can help




BIG AL