• Archive through September 01, 2004 September 01 - 09:31 pm [20]

• Archive through September 08, 2004 September 08 - 03:15 pm [20]

Supposing you start by "analyzing" the weakness in Erik's first post, or can you put together a coherent sentence to express such? It isn't actually a technique which we are discussing, but a mind-set that may infuse one's techniques with enough motivation (and timing)to make the difference between walking or being carried away from a potentially serious situation, and being able to face the legal aftermath.

The only difference between a "sucker punch" and a regular strike is the mindset and the circumstances.

No-one knows how they will react in a particular type of situation unless they have been exposed to that kind of situation. It's called experience and, as the saying goes, it makes you or it breaks you.

There's also stupid luck and somedays, some fights, nothing goes the way it should.

There's also paranoia and spending a lot of time analyzing whether or not strangers will be dangerous when you should be focusing on being a better, more peaceful person yourself.

'There's also paranoia and spending a lot of time analyzing whether or not strangers will be dangerous when you should be focusing on being a better, more peaceful person yourself.'

wow, you don't often get that point mentioned on this board, which is fair enough, because this isn't the boddhisattva compassion discussion group. On the other hand it's a pretty good point.

I think T Jackson has gone on an intellectual trip and wants to remind us of the danger of taking other people's opinion for granted. That or he just doesn't like people holding different opinions to him. Or her.

I think Bob#2's opinion could be useful and enlightening here.

now I feel obligated.... as usual you demi-geniuses have over looked the obvious 'secret to the sucker punch'.

Not one of you mentioned why type of sucker you want to hit your opponent with.
Does flavor matter? Do you want a solid, flat sucker (like Betty Boop used) or a roundish type sucker. With the wraper or without. Is the effect better if the sucker is wet with saliva and dangles from your opponents hair.

and as for "focusing on being a better, more peaceful person yourself" nothing makes me more peaceful than absolute ability to beat the crap out of you.

It's not that I'm that much smarter than you- I just spend more time on problems.

Bob#2

Hey Bob#2, is your inflammatory offer to "beat the crap" out of all and sundry just a continuation of your fascination with bowels, protruding or otherwise?

:P

you mean bowels like 'A E I O U and sometimes Y'??

I was just responding to someones suggestion that time is best spent making ones self better and more peaceful rather than worring about dangerous strangers. Maybe, for easily inflammed like yourself, I should have instead stated "what makes me better and more peaceful is knowing I can beat up strangers- dangerous or not"

Does that meet with your Shakesperian expectations, stranger?

The serious part of Bob #2's post is good. You don't have anything to fear from anyone if you can absolutley beat the crap out of them.

Thus you can spend less time worrying and more time enjoying life and have a more peaceful, less bothered mind.

p.s.
What if someone on the message board started a cult devoted to teaching and following the sayings of Bob #2? Would the world be a better place or turn into an apocolyptic nightmare reminiscient of a Mad Max movie?

I must admit that I have often enjoyed Bob#2's turn-of-wit and even found myself agreeing with his opinions on occasion.

Of course, I may well be saying this now because I'm also petrified that he'll beat the crap out of me while I'm praying for peace or trying to better myself...

T. Jackson,

Proof of what? That what I write about comes from personal experience? I think most everyone on this board has been in a "street" altercation at least once before and most have probably gotten that first shot in.

I have as well and that is my take on how I've both prepared for and handled those situations. I've not once tried to come off as authoritarian, just posting my take on the thread. Read the first post again. It's a simple formula.

Basically, decide BEFOREHAND what circumstances would actually motivate you to feel the need to fight someone. I don't advocate running around starting fights. Just having a personal moral line for oneself if you think you might have to fight. For me it's simply when I sense that I've gotten myself into a situation that I can no longer talk my way out of, or if I feel morally justified, such as protecting someone else.

Secondly, I still maintain that it makes good sense to train for getting the first shot in if you ever find yourself in one of those situations I've just mentioned. Part of that training should involve an awareness of your own adrenaline response and how you deal with it. And yes, some of that awareness comes from experience.

Anyone who knows me knows that I include this in my personal training methods. ...And that I've put it into practical application more than a few times over the past few years.

Authority? Proof? What are you asking for? Stories from people on this thread of who we've sucker punched or how we've started fights? Do you want fotos or victim's testimonials? The original question was for advice on the sucker punch to which I've added my 2 cents along with others. Their input equally sound.

I can tell you that the last fight I got into was last year. A theif that was caught stealing equipment from the DJ booth of my friend's bar, who I ended up putting in the hospital as a result. But what do you want, to talk to the owner of the bar who watched me pound the guy, or the victim? I didn't feel good about the whole deal but felt morally justified. And I didn't get hurt because I stuck to my gameplan knew how I would feel and what would happen before I found the guy. We met face to face and he outweighed me by at least 30 pounds.

If you want to know about me and whether I can walk my talk click on my profile or e-mail me. I'll tell you about my background and experience if you want but I don't think this thread is the place for it.

You're more than welcome to come here and see if I've got any fight in me for yourself if you're ever in Thailand. I've got all the proof you're looking for right here. But to ask for proof from everyone who has any input on a martial art discussion board? Give me a break!

Oh, I almost forgot.

Weaknesses to my method. Really it's the same weakness found in any method of martial art aimed at street awareness and self-defense rather than sport competition.

The weakness is that IF you ever find yourself in a situation where the only way out is a fight, you won't be prepared for your own adrenaline response and "freeze up" when you should be trying to get the first shot in.

But a good remedy for that weakness is to work on your mindset and moral justification in advance, train specifically for just such a situation and train in a way that forces you to experience and deal with your own adrenaline response such as competition and lots of free-sparring. Good plain old martial arts training if you ask me.

Sorry Mont. If some problem guy knows that you can beat the crap out of him, that doesn't mean he's not a problem. He can just decide to start things by using a shotgun from behind you. Or he may complain to the police that you threatened or hurt him. If you are a known tough guy, who trains to fight, it seems to make his story more likely. Lots of things along this vein can happen.

Thank you Erik for making my point.

Someone had to make it for you...although I'm still not exactly sure anyone here knows what it was.

I think I'm starting to see his point: "better to be carried by six than to be judged by twelve"

Practicing Sucker Punches 101:

1. Have trainer hold mits;

2. Throw punches until proficient (powerful, short punches with no telegraphing);

3. Find sucker;

4. And, punch sucker when he's not looking (eating a sandwich).

Can we all agree on my brilliant curriculum?

Mont,

Maybe I'm unclear on the concept, but I think many of you are confusing "sucker punches" with "offensive first strikes." I take a sucker punch to mean an unannounced, preemptive "punch" where no threat or escalation of violence is present. An offensive first strike is when you strike first with any number of limbs (Liverpool Kiss, knee to balls, etc.) in a threatening situation. Well, striking first in a street fight (or sport fight) has its obvious advantages and is a necessary tactic to take if you want to win. However, I believe the original thread was when you asked Tim how sucker punch a guy and you wanted to review methodology/technique because your friend didn't do it right.

Very good point Willard.

Also, if I was going to go around annoucing to everyone I meet that I could absolutley beat the crap out of them then I'd also wear a kevlar vest, carry a compact MP-5 (that sweet little sub-machine gun) carry a combat knife and wear a helmet.

The point is that being confident doesn't mean you have to go around making everyone pissed off at you and thinking of ways to beat you up or kill you. If you act like just some regular guy then if they try to mug you or something you will be able to suprise them insted of them initiating the violence by shooting you right between the eyes because you go around doing Kung Fu moves in plain sight and acting like you are the reincarnation of Bruce Lee. "Why doesn't someone just pull out a 45 and BANG finish it?"

Willard, if someone wasn't at least a potential threat, why would you want to punch him?

Mont,

This is for you. I know you'd enjoy it.

Girl Fight!

\ link {http://www.supraspeed.com/bdrive/pages/grlfight.wmv}

Erik,

Since neither of us can speak for anyone else on this board. Your attempt at doing so can only be considered a nice political ploy.

Let me try one of my own i. e. political ploys. I have done a little research on Tim. To say the least his history is extensive. I’m sure most everyone on this board is familiar with it. I also sampled as many of the comments on this site by Tim, within each category listed, that I could. My intent was to find any unsubstantiated personal experience stories, there seem to be none. At least none I could find. Tim seems to exhibit a wisdom most of us don’t have i.e. don’t relate any personal experience stories without some kind of verification.

As to my political ploy it’s mute. As to being a sycophant I’m guilty. If I lived anywhere near Tim’s school I would be there studying. He would have to put up with my constant questions and a please prove it demeanor.

Erik, your authority derives solely from Tim. Look it up its right there on the net. My suggestion is you do a joint article with Tim on the very subject at hand. It’s obvious to me you can express your self extremely well in written form. I’m sure many of the people on this board would agree. Stay away from unverifiable experience stories.

I hope this explains some of my intent.

Kenneth, was this coherent enough for you?

T Jackson

Kenneth,

My point exactly. If you review this thread you'll see that I think hitting people with no provocation is patently anti-social and should be avoided at all costs. However, I can think of one or two times when I wanted to do it. My friend Moe is a sucker punch fanatic. He punches them and they go down and then I say, "Bad Moe...bad Moe." I am a citizen!

Well, I have met a few people who enjoyed bashing unsuspecting victims just for the sake of bashing them, but I had rather hoped the posters on this forum, even the anti-social ones, weren't quite that bad.

Mr. Jackson, coherent enough, but could you answer these questions?

1-Where on Erik's initial post do you see where he claimed any personal experiences? You read that on Tim's response to your first post.

2-Why do you assume Tim is just swallowing a line? As you stated, he does seem quite wise. How do you know he didn't have verification of Erik's experiences, or perhaps even wasn't there in person?

Judging from my own experiences, I feel that if you had any personal knowledge on this, you would see the necessity of having clearly delineated personal "battle lines". They could keep you from getting in over your head, spur you on to victory, or insure your actions are legal.

I just can't help getting the impression that you have some personal axe to grind here, because you seem intelligent enough.

I once knocked out a guy at a bus stop for looking at me funny.

Bam! Right on the temple. There were witnesses.

This is how I did it.

We were both sitting at the bench. I stood up and dropped a butterfinger candy bar in front of him. The bright colors of the candy bar caught his eye and that's when I gave him the punch.

It was a perfect sucker punch.

Then I said, nobody better lay a finger on my butterfinger.

True story.

That's wonderful.

Even girls fight on the ground!