Assuming you can possess power and accuracy, it is very antisocial to punch someone in the temple or throat while he is eating a briskit or a tuna sandwich. Doing so can land you in big trouble. There are less lethal targets that will have the desired effect (e.g., render the enemy unable to fight back).

Try reading the book "Watch My Back" by Geoff Thompson. It's basically about how and when to fire off that first shot. It's filled with a lot of personal anecdotes. An interesting read on this very subject.

Since Erik brought him up...

Another excellent Geoff Thompson book is "Dead or Alive."

I wasn't advocating punching someone in the throat while eating. If the person is in a bar or something with you and still eating then the threat level most likely hasn't escalted to a high enough level to justify such an attack. I'm saying what if you were walking down the street and a group of thugs start bothering you, start ruffing you up a bit and such. Then a strike to put down the meanest and biggest with one blow is justified before they initiate the actual fight.

"Ok, here's my wallet." BAM. "Tiny Tim's out, run for it he's like the guy on Kung Fu!"

If you are eating and someone starts making trouble then maybe:

The threat could still be talked down.

The bouncer or someone else could try to take care of it.

You could counter-threaten your opponent in a low voice into not starting something, "If you attack me I will not hesitate to mess you up really bad. There is no reason to fight. Let me buy you a drink." or something like that.

If you are worrying about legal ramifications because you are in a very public place then maybe the best solution would be to get the opponent to at least stand up and face off. Say things like "I don't want to fight, help, ect." This will get witnesses on your side. Then if he still attacks, that throat strike is looking mighty good if he is much bigger, armed, or something else justifying it.

That said, I'd rather get slugged in the temple or even hit in the throat than someone shatter a glass in my face. That can cause permanent scarring, cut up eyes and cause blindness and other nasty things. It also doesn't look very good to a jury. If the guy gets hit in the throat (with enough control to avoid collapsing the wind pipe of course) it isn't going to look like you beat his face in with a wrench or rammed his head through a window.

Oh, you can always try the verbal way out, but if he's not in the mood for a chat someone's going to get smacked and if you're smart you'll make sure it's him first.

The first thing about suckering someone is that there's no such thing as a sucker punch in the first place. If you feel you need to sucker someone that person has already crossed a line (whatever that may be) that you've set for yourself that you feel he deserves a crack in the jaw or whatever. You have to mentally decide that it's going to happen. You've given him opportunities to back down and he hasn't taken them. He's started a fight and there's no such thing as a sucker punch in a fight.

Tim once said "If you were in a gunfight would you wait for the other guy to take the first shot?"

So now he's crossed your line and you are dealing with the adrenaline rush trying not to let him see it. He's crossed the line and it's going to be a fight. A street fight is about getting that first shot in. Have a mindset that that shot is all yours. DO NOT THINK DEFENSIVELY.

You need to line yourself up with whatever strike you're going to lay into him with, without him noticing that lineup. You might do it as your talking to him. Even better, ask him a question of some sort. It engages the thought process and divides his attention.

Then ...CRACK!!!

...and think ahead. That first shot gives you a tremendous advantage so follow up with whatever you've been training for and don't stop until you've made sure he's finished or until someone breaks it up.

You've also got to have enough wits about you to notice what's going on around you. You may need to deal with a few of his friends too. Then get the hell outa dodge at the first chance.

As for competitive martial arts you have a lot of techniques for dealing with the adrenaline rush before a match but in a real life situation it's a bit different. Fight, flight or freeze and not everyone is mentally prepared for "fight", even if you've trained. Also in competition it's all about the abilities of the competitors. In the street it's about accepting that you might have gotten into a confrontation that you can't talk your way out of (sometimes through no fault of your own) and you should be mentally and physically prepared for it.

As for this preparation you might try some situational role playing and clearly define that line that you won't let someone cross. For some it might be aggressive physical contact. Others may not tolerate a man hitting a woman in public. There are numerous others but you should know your own personal line that you won't let others cross and have a well rehearsed plan for dealing with it should it ever happen.

Once you've sorted that out the with yourself you won't freeze when the time comes. Next you might train your first strike. Train the lineup. Train your intent, technique and power specifically for that first strike. Good role playing using striking equipment helps.

Keep in mind that most altercations happen in crowded areas (often with alcohol involved) giving you around a foot and a half or so to work with and your opponent may already be well within your safe distance. So your "first shot" training should take that into consideration. Maybe a right cross, slightly overhand and a bit hooked lazer sighted to the jaw perhaps. And always have wits enough to see if he's got any thing in his hands (a beer mug, a bottle, his car keys, etc.).

You may not like to fight nor want to, but sometimes •••• happens and some ••••••• won't let it go without some physical. Or you may feel morally obligated to help a potential victim. Know the warning signs. Look for signs of his adrenaline rush (intake of breath, clenching of fists, tension, foot tapping or leg shaking, shaky voice) and watch for his lineup. Try to line him up for the first shot you've been training for first, and beat him to the punch.

Result: Beautiful Sucker Punch

Good points. I just wanted to say that many hardened criminals won't show any signs of an adrenaline rush so you may not be able to use that as a gague of when he is going to attack.

Oh yeah, and people on some drugs won't show the adrenaline rush either.

Laport,

You have no idea what you are talking about. You don't even know what defense is.

T. Jackson, I'm curious, what is your outlook on this matter?

T. Jackson,

Erik may not know what he is talking about, but he's used exactly what he discussed above successfully more than once.

Maybe he just keeps getting lucky.

Hello Tim,

I don’t know if Mr. Laport has been successful or not. I have to rely on your authority. In spite of this, there is a problem with authority, I must accept you’re telling the truth or you know the truth without any substantiation. Consequently no one knows accept Mr. Laport, and without any evidence on his part, or yours, I can only conclude the description above is evidence of a highly creative mind. Thus pure fiction derived from reading a book. Perhaps Erik should investigate in a career as a creative writer. It was certainly an amusing read.

T. Jackson, again, you shoot down what someone says but offer no input of your own. Erik didn't recite some "I Was There" tale, just a sound approach often overlooked by others, or perhaps you have knowledge which negates his advice. If so, please share it with us so we can all be more streetwise.

In Dragon Ball Z once Krillin asked Chotzu questions like "What is 3 + 9?" Because Chotzu was using his hands to attack Kirllin with Chi energy. Chotzu wasn't very good at math so he had to count out the problems on his fingers. This gave Krillin time to attack every time he asked a question. "What's 3 + 7?" "1.2.3.4.5..." BAM! "What's 5 + 2?" "1.2.3..." BAM! "What's 7 + 3?" "1.2.3.4.5..." BAM! Krillin beat Chotzu by asking questions to get Chotzu to engage the though process. So don't laugh at it!

Kenneth,

You’re exceptionally accurate point, and challenge of me is accepted. As if you need my approval, which you don’t. If, however, I give some sort of counter to Erik’s post I would be just as guilty of playing the Authority game. We all know, or should know by now, the law known as The Illogical Appeal Toward Authority.

Subsequently, where do we go from here?

I'll try to think of a comeback as soon as I've finished deciphering your last post.

That makes less sense than my b.s. post on dragon ball z. Forget the engima decoder. This man truly speaks in an unbreakable code. I'm still trying to figure out if he is even speaking in complete sentences much less figuring out what he is actually saying.

Hey T. Jackson,

Look, that's just my approach to training and as Tim alluded to, I've been in a few scrapes in my day. It works for me. Defense...well my take on that is that the best defense is a good offense. An old saying but still true.

You've not presented your approach, only insulted me and criticized mine. It doesn't really matter though. I'll stick with mine.

I'd like to know if anyone else trains specifically for the first shot or sucker, and if so what are some of your specific training methods. Unlike Mr. T, I'm always open to new ideas.

Thinking back I suppose I used a sucker punch years ago before I started martial arts when attack in a bathroom when I was like 8 years old or something. It was at a wedding and the ring boy was mad at me. Long story. He had some help from another kid at the wedding.

I guess my thought process went something like this:

1. Talking would do no good, this was a thought out and organized attack.

2. There were 2 of them, I would need to stop one before the other could attack.

So I just waited for the first to get in range and before he could do anything and was still talking trash I initiated the violence, landing a right on his jaw. The other kid attacked and I threw him up against a wall and kicked him or something. He ran away not really having any reason to fight, feeling some pain was enough for him to reconsider.The ring boy who I had punched intially was kinda hurt and dazed so I just walked out of the bathroom without even messing up my clip on tie Looks like the sucker punch worked well.

I have gotten sucker punched two times. Once someone was mad at me while playing chess so he just slugged me in side of the head. No warning, nothing. However it didn't really hurt so I just ignored him and walked away. If he can't even hurt me with a free shot to the temple, no reason to waste the effort of teaching him a lesson.

The other time was when I was playing basketball. For some reason the guy just sucker punched me in the solar plexus. The guy was a friend of one of my friends so I decided it wasn't worth pursuing.

Hi Mont F.

You're absolutely right about not being able to see someone's adrenaline rush when they're out of their head but you can often tell when someone's simply not going to back down. And if you sense that they won't, then it's on...and you want to hit first.

Or, sometimes he's all mouth and your not sure if he's going to go off or he's just trying to impress his girlfriend. You might just rough him up or push him to get him to either get on with it or shut the •••• up.

In the above post about the guys in the bathroom. I don't consder that a sucker puch. It's just smart fighting. Good on ya!

Erik,

Where is your proof? Instead you say you’re insulted when your supposed authority is challenged. Did Tim witness any event where you used this technique or did he accept it upon your own character?

You say this is how you train. If so, you have given us the technique’s strengths, what are it’s inherit weaknesses? Or have you even analyzed this at all?