Chris,
That wasn't chi, it was the "force." Keep your galaxies straight.

Richard,
I've never said "chi does not exist." (well, I did in the post above. Please note the heavy sarcasm). I find it interesting that you think I keep saying "chi does not exist." I've said it has nothing to do with martial arts.

Rich,
I know what you mean, girls always get mad when you rub them and stick them to the wall.

Man... I walked into that one.

Ha- you guys are amatuers...

If I rub my feet really fast on the carpet, I can walk up to doorknobs and even people and zap them with chi! Its somewhat shocking.

I train it for use in self defense. Right now I carry a small rug with me so if anything happens, I throw the rug down, slide my feet on it, and shock the attacker to make him run away!!

my blanket (blanky) is really powerful!
I took it out of the dryer and as I touched, it kicked my butter.

powerful stuff? and it has no arms or legs.

Hi Tim,

I was only looking at your post on this thread, but I see that in other places you have talked about chi. So your position is that chi has nothing to do with martial arts. Interesting.

Thanks,
Richard

The modern internel martial arts (in North America, at least) tend to attract a wide spectrum of students. At one end, are those who want exotic answers to life and who want to "play" at the martial arts. At the other end are those who try to make the training something like what it should be, ie, effort, sweat and bruises.

It's not surprising to me that the former end is the most populous and the most prosperous for those who teach them.

>Chi is not for martial arts usage, it's meant for medical purposes and there is nothing mysterious about it, it's just the natural energy within everything. Remember science class, everything is made of energy, and that energy is in many forms from the coarse to the refined,

Energy comes in many forms alright: heat, light, electromagnetism, mechanical force, vibration, etc.
The kind of energy that's relevant to athletic, acrobatic or martial movement is mechanical, elastic and gravitational forces.

I don't doubt that Chinese medicine has some value, but that doesn't mean that medical chi, meridians, chakras, etc. have any objectively demonstrable existence. Improved chi flow might refer to improved circulation of blood and lymph, which would also tend result in better control of temperature in the extremities.

okay now im confused...

with all due respect, i beg to differ tim,

from my experience(very little compared to yours)chi is the (coordinated) energy of the body and mind

i feel that visualizing the chi to be projected into a punch to produce a more coordinated, accurate, and powerful punch, or kick, is a very effective way to train. i do not feel that it is necessary, or mandatory, but to me, it is a way to apply chi to martial arts, and from my personal experience, it has helped me a great deal in my progression in the martial arts.

so why do you think that chi has nothing to do with the martial arts? do you not use the concept of chi in your teachings? did your teachers teach you anything about chi? i respect your knowledge tim, and i am very curious as to why you feel this way, being a high level practitioner of the internal martial arts. i hope that i have not offended you or anyone else with this post.

please reply with your opinion,
much respect, rob.

not to mention the benefits reaped by chi gung, i.e. enhanced nervous system and reflexes, and increased stamina that can also be directed towards martial arts.

still waiting for a reply...

well here then, i have found a contradiction within your thinking. here is a quote from the "what is chi" thread,

In the Chinese martial and health arts "Qi Gong" is the name given to various types of breathing/intention/movement exercises. These exercises are designed to oxygenate the body, increase the circulation and improve conscious control over movement (mind and body unity)

okay here is the contradiction, you say that chi has nothing to do with martial arts, but... how is it possible to seperate martial arts from breathing/intention/movement??? isnt concious control over movements used while fighting?

Robert:
Chi is your imaginary friend.
How many Times will I have to tell you this?

robert, whenever I read your posts, I hear a serious lisp in your voice.

Bob#2
(I think you're thpethial)

When no one is around, if I rub my chi it gets bigger. Now, I have hairy palms. But, I can see energy flowing from my fingertips.

Stop fantasizing robert! Its not good for your health.

Robert,

Using images (visualization) to coordinate the intent with the movement is great, why do you need to call it qi?

I never use the word qi in my teachings. None of my Chinese teachers talked about qi in the context of martial arts (although some did in the context of TCM).

In regards to my post on "Qi Gong," please read the quote you included above. I said Qi Gong (literally "breath skill") is the name given to various breathing/intention/movement exercises, not methods of cultivating mysterious powers.

You're right, it is not possible to separate the martial arts from breathing/intention/movement, isn't that what I originally said? Where exactly is the contradiction?

The term qi shouldn't be used when teaching strickly martial arts I think. Even when certain chi-kung postures are being trained. Not only does everyone and their dog get the wrong idea about qi, but it also has a nasty habit of scaring away potential students and customers.

The fact is, though, that if you want to reach a certain level, you need to go above and beyond mastering the martial art. Learning about TCM and the healing arts are the proper forum to begin learning about qi, but also at the same time gaining an in depth knowledge of the human body.

Your ability to cause pain and injury will increase exponentially with your knowledge of the human body and how it works (And human anatomy classes and knowledge of chin-na don't cut it). Your practice of chi-kung would have to become more dedicated and focused, reaching new depths.

The more you know how to heal yourself and others, the far more dangerous you become when you can apply it to your martial art.

The same power that heals is the same power that destroys.

Anyway I'm also a fortune teller! I predict I am about to be flamed by some members of this board. But I'm not saying you can't be powerful and not know of qi and chinese medicine. But It would only serve to make you far more deadly. The real going though is to help yourselves and other (like friends, family, and aquaintences).

"I predict I am about to be flamed by some members of this board"

( a qoute from sifu tim,)

Robert,

Using images (visualization) to coordinate the intent with the movement is great, why do you need to call it qi?

I never use the word qi in my teachings. None of my Chinese teachers talked about qi in the context of martial arts (although some did in the context of TCM).

In regards to my post on "Qi Gong," please read the quote you included above. I said Qi Gong (literally "breath skill") is the name given to various breathing/intention/movement exercises, not methods of cultivating mysterious powers.

You're right, it is not possible to separate the martial arts from breathing/intention/movement, isn't that what I originally said? Where exactly is the contradiction?



oh...

yes, i call it chi, why? well for me its it is just another method of learning the methods and techniques. visualizing chi while i practice, really helps my progress, though i cannot speak for anyone else when i say that chi, as a concept, in my mind, actually exists. and it exists since i have "experienced "it in certain ways.

meditation and chi gung are exercises that i try to practice and integrate into my martial arts, thats just the way i have been doing it, and it seems to be working. though i CAN see both sides of the spectrum, your opinion is that chi is not real? im sorry but im not really that clear to what your view is, you are saying that chi exists, but cannot be applied to martial arts? or the concept of chi anywhere outside tcm is useless?

whether chi exists in whatever context or not, i respect your opinion and will take it into consideration, you definitely know something that i dont, and would probably without a doubt kick my ass, but if youre saying chi doesnt exist, or wont help with martial arts, that is something i would like to find out for myself.


thanks tim, i learn a great deal from this place, rob.