The dictionary defines 'projection' as a " throw forward." I wanted to ask ya'll's opinion as to whether you consider a projection (basically I am speaking of a push) a shuai (throwing) technique? Projections seem to be very popular with the Taiji crowds, but less so with other arts.

Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Jake

how many shoving matchs have you seen?
many i bet!
does a shove end a fight?no!!!

I think projections are more concerned with taking advantage of your opponent's state of unbalance (that you hopefully have instigated)in an opportunistic way such as "pushing" them into something like a wall, another person, some other obstruction or just make them fall over albeit awkwardly. As such they are not necessarily seen as fight ending tactics. Throws are fight ending tactics as the express desire is to remove the opponent's feet from the ground, control them whist they are in the air and slam them on to something hard, usually the ground.

very few fights end by a toss or take down!
if someone knows how to take a fall or avoid to be taken down hard, then the fight goes on.

Marc
I have tolerated your ranting on all the other threads, but PLEASE read the question before typing away. I am not asking if it is a fight ender, nor how efficient it is, but rather where does one classify it? Obviously pushing your opponent away will not do anything beneficial for you as now you have to re-engage.
Tim, where would you classify projections?
Ozzy,
I agree with you, but would you classify it as a throw or more like a strike? Your description sounds more like a strike to me.
Thanks
Jake

Tricky - I wouldn't class a projection as a throw. I think of throwing as directing the opponent towards the ground, with the intention of using the ground to stun him. A projection could be a push backwards or a pull forwards (past one side) - if he falls that's a bonus but not the main intent of the move.

By push/pull/turn/etc, I mean the taiji type not a crude shove.

Jake, If I had to I'd classify projections as a type of strike. Specifically, a strike using so called long energy which tends to disrupt the opponent's centre of gravity to such an extent that it "projects" them into something - often by default, the ground. This is basically the tactic of "long" energy as I understand it.

However, in order to strike and cause damage it is not actually useful to disrupt the opponents balance to such an extent. Controlling the centre of gravity for a fraction of a second ie over coming the opponent's inertia rather than taking advantage of the opponent's inertia facilitates a strike much better tactically, ironically as it often does with a throw. That's why projections are so opportunistic because they purely exploit the opponent's inertia and also why they don't usually cause real damage by themselves as the opponent is actually still able to take back control of their centre of gravity. I suspect this is why they are practised so much in Taijiquan tuishou so as to develop the spirit of taking the initiative / opportunity rather than as an end in themselves. After familiarity with this is achieved more involved strategies that cause real damage such as throws and "short" strikes could be trained.

Marc, I'm aware of the ability to fall out of throws but in the end when training there is an unwritten code so to speak that you protect your partner, often in subtle ways, like controlling the acceleration of the throw, cradling the head somehow or using your discretion in sacrifice throws so as not to land with your full weight on your partner. In my experience these are often picked up unconsciously when learning the technique of a given throw. Also, it is not a simple matter to get a clean throw in competition / sparring if the opponent is familar with your technique and tactics. That's why throws are so spectacular and effective fight enders when you pull them off!

so jake your goal is not to learn MA,
but to learn definitions from the dictionary!
good luck with that???

Hey Marc I know a good definition from my dictionary when I ram it down your throat

Anytime, Anyplace, Anywhere fool !!!!

Good post Ozzy, you make some good points. Thank you.
Marc- Those on this board and others that have met me know that I am training MA, and I am no joke. I am asking as I am writing an article and would like some clarification on certain definitions. Trust me I know how to apply them! Oh, BTW what are you doing to better the martial arts in general other than acting like a 3 year old?
Thanks
Jake

I don't know if there is a standard definition of "projection" as it applies to MA technique.

I'd say a projection is more of a push, bump or "uprooting" technique that causes the opponent to lose his balance and "fly" away. He may or may not fall.

A throw or takedown is designed to cause the opponent to land on the ground, usually close to the thrower.

Appreciate it. Thanks.
Jake

big fishy,don't you think "anyplace and anywhere"
is kind of the same thing?
tell where and when i'll be happy to go kick your ass!
jake, i guess i'm not gonna mess with you anymore
because you claim you're "no joke".
HOOOOOOOOH!
what and where do you train?Mr.no joke.
articles for what?your journal?

I will meet up your challenge 2BC Daousty, anytime, anywhere any discussion !!!!

Signed Fatboy whoops I mean Bigger Fish !!!

Doh !!!

i asked you where and when???
now your chickened out?(should i say fished out?)
tell me,and i'll be there!!!!

sorry, this is not a personal dating service, take your lover's spat elsewhere. heheheh

You guys will make a beautiful couple. I am begining to think that personal development should be a prerequisite for martial art training. Both you children could use some.

Marc and Fatboy,

No profanity. Last warning.