Seems that RMooney left the baord days ago.

I find it funny that he's so sucessful, when U "whizzkids" say he isn't legit. He's been 2 the UK like 6 times over the past few years from what I've read in martial arts magazines from over there. & he makes regluar appearences at other places as well. So Y is it that he's so sucessful, & U guys R so unknown?

Then again, aside from Cartmell, I've never seen anything written by any of the rest of U. Appears 2 me that most of U R just very jealous at his sucess.

To make it even worse, not a 1 of U winners have ever trained with him, as far as I can C anyway. You all call him names & yet you can B as prejudiced as U want. Mighty white of U guys 2 B so 2 faced.

I'm off to look 4 a website I can actually get some good info from, not a place where people like U talk SH1T.

Hey Ahab, methinks you been playing with your sockpuppet too much. Why dontcha give it back to
joey the wop so he can have some fun too?

Someone is using my name Ron. Please see who it is and remove the comments from my name that are not from my ip address.

thanks,
Joe

Joe,

I've already contacted Ron. The last post by the Capt was not the Capt either.

Lance

Capt Ahab is doing Joe Baloney AND his sock monkey too!

Lance,

I have not contacted Ron. But I feel it safe to say that the last post was not by the Capt. either.

Tom

Ron has not got back to me yet, Lance.

But when he does, I will let you know.

In the meantime,batten down the hatches, stow the mizzenmasts, and hide the vaseline and sock monkey puppets.

Well now, standard Rich Mooney tactics. Come on a board using different names, calling everyone jerks and making Mooney into a misunderstood god. Using other people's names (like mine - I really hit a nerve, didn't I?). That's really sadly pathetic and slightly sociopathic behavior.

I understand now that you HAVE to believe that you have supernatural powers, that it is imperative for you to belive this. If you do not practice this self-delusion, then your empire collapses and your meal ticket disappears.

That's fine, Rich, hold on to your delusion as long as you need to. But kindly stop trying to tell us day is night, black is white, and that you can move someone without touching them. We don't need to believe in your dreams, thanks.

I'll say no more on the subject. Anyone who cares to can do a little homework for themselves and easily find the gaping holes in Richard Mooney's claims. His "lineage" and "certifications" alone are good for a laugh.

Lets analyze this: Chris Rankin, if it is indeed Chris Rankin; The Chris Rankin who has never met Mr. Mooney, by all that has been posted thus far... Seems to think the self same Mr. Mooney is posting all these messages.

Care to provide any proof to that claim Chris?

Nowhere has Mr. Mooney called anyone a jerk.

How do you know Mr. Mooney believes in the "supernatural" as you put it?

Have you ever laid eyes on him in real life?

Care to provide proof that this is standard
Mooney tactics?

Are you stalking him? You know stalking is a crime, even on the internet.

As far as sociopathic behaviour, what would you know about it?

Are you a licensed and certified Psychiatrist?

Are you making a diagnosis? Are you practicing medicine without a license?

Are you "Chris Rankin" a sociopath?

Anyone who cares to can do a little homework for themselves and easily find the gaping holes in Chris Rankin's claims.

If you do not practice this self-delusion, then your empire collapses. and your meal ticket disappears.


Self Delusion? Diagnosing again I see.

And the empire you are referring to is where?

And how do you know about Mr. Mooney's finances?

I suppose you are right.

I have never met the man.

I don't know the first thing about him in fact.

I don't know if he has an empire, or where it is.

I don't know about his wealth, or lack of it.

I don't know if he teaches for a living, or just for the fun of it.

I don't know why people continue to train with him, why people continue to publish his magazine articles, why people continue to have him for seminars all over the world, and have been doing so for years. I am just so jealous that he gets on magazine covers and I don't

In fact everything I have said about him, I have made up, since I don't have any first hand knowledge about the man, his methods, or his martial arts skills.

I just know I have an urge to lie about someone
I have never met before, and it might as well be him as anyone.

From another list.I find the below quote relevant to the present topic.Just substitute in "Empty Force" for Ayurvedic.In other words what top martial artists have ever applied any of these methods against a non co operative and highly trained opponent in the environs of a sanctioned competetive event.


Andrew Kaplan wrote:

Mind, Body, and Sport by Dr. John Douillard? ....

*** Just to set provide some of the background to this author, this is what an advertisement for his book states: John Douillard is the Director of Player Development for the New Jersey Nets and is the author of Body, Mind and Sport and The 3-Season Diet. Currently he co-hosts the #1 rated radio talk show in Colorado called "Health Time". He received his PhD in Ayurvedic Medicine from the Open International University associated with the United Nations Peace University. He currently practices Ayurvedic and Chiropractic Sports medicine. ....

John Douillard is an Ayurvedic physician who trained in India and has certified over two thousand American doctors in Ayurvedic medicine. His book, Body, Mind and Sport, has been printed in seven languages. He currently practices Ayurvedic medicine and rejuvenation techniques in Boulder, Colorado

Amazon Books review:

When a baseball player gets five hits in a row or a basketball player can't miss, they're said to be in a "zone." The zone is a nebulous state, thought to be brought on willy-nilly, not willfully. Drawing on numerous Eastern disciplines, but especially on India's Vedic literature, Douillard says no, the zone can be brought on consciously. His program for physical training begins with a psychophysiological profile that will determine one's individual nature, which, in turn, will help one choose a sport in which to compete and determine the appropriate diet and exercise regimen. >

*** There is no such thing as a valid "psychophysiological profile" that has ever been shown to relate to any specific type of sport, diet, training method or mode of human performance (though Ayurveda has its own traditional categorisation of human "types". Each sport has a wide variety of people who have different psychological and physiological characteristics.

If Douillard really believes his methods to be so effective, then he also needs to offer some scientific proof and explain why the Ayurvedic principles on which he relies so heavily have produced few, if any, of the top performers in international sport. If he is referring to the general, non-competitive public, then we all know that almost ANY training and nutritionally adequate diet will usually enhance their health, fitness and quality of life. There is nothing unique about any results which may be produced by his methods among the general public. Similar pseudoscientific claims were made by Deepak Chopra, who also made a lot of money by mass marketing altered states (via time spent with the TM guru, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi) and Ayurvedic medicine. Maybe this is also relevant to some, but Douillard does not seem to have worked with too many elite or world class athletes, less still used his methods to make them into world beaters.

There actually are a great deal of interesting, unusual and useful methods that were developed in the East and I fully acknowledge that fact, but the exaggerated, unscientific and simplistic manner in which some health gurus are exploiting this information needs to be exposed to constant critical analysis and debunking wherever possible. The mystique of things emanating from the genie bottles of "prophets from other lands" magificently captivates many members of the general public and it is up to any of us who have seriously studied or experienced some of these methods to help sort out the wheat from the commercialised chaff. That task is very difficult, because a very significant percentage of such methods, however bizarre or illogical they may seem to be, enjoy definite success because of the placebo effect and the "faith factor".

The Review continues:



*** While it is a good idea to "listen to your body", no amount of Ayurvedic training or breath control is going to help you magically feel a small tumour in your brain, the subtle stirrings of cancer in a vital organ, the onset of skeletal deterioration, the first traces of plaque formation in the cardiac arteries, the early stages of infection by virulent bacterium or virus, or a million other diseases or dysfunctions which beset the human condition.

When that aphorism, "Know Thyself", was uttered, it did not exclude the possibility of one day using modern methods to help you analyse your physical condition. I certainly would not place much serious reliance on Douillardish tuning into the body as a reliable way of monitoring its state of pathology or health. Although many of us know the limitations of modern medicine, I would rather rely on blood tests, MRIs, X-rays, EEGs, urine analysis and many other such tests than depend on any diaphanous Ayurvedic or alternative therapies for serious disorders.

The Review again:



*** There is nothing at all unique about mind/body fitness methods, even in the West -- many others have stressed its importance and shown how it may be achieved, many years before Douillard came on the commercial scene. The book, "The Psychic Side of Sports" (Murphy & White) wrote about this ages ago, as did many others, like "The Inner Game of Tennis" "The Inner Game of Golf" and Inner Skiing" (all by Tim Gallwey), "Inner Athlete", "Ultimate Athlete" ... my study shelves alone are littered with dozens of books on such topics ... maybe we need to compile a list of such reading for anyone who may be interested in such topics. The SPORTPSY list is devoted to discussion of such issues - you may join it at:



Douillard seems to know a limited amount about high level sports training. Far too many people have been uttering that that now-fashionable anti-mantra, "no gain if there is pain", to counter the mantra, "no gain without pain". While too many coaches and military autocrats actually believe that the sort of pain which causes physical damage is "good" for you, most intelligent coaches know that it really means that, if there is no "pain" of EFFORT, then there will be no gain. As I explain in "Supertraining", there is major difference between the pain of effort, the pain of injury and the pain of fatigue. Douillard would do well to appreciate that and to know that there IS NO GAIN without the "pain" or sense of effort. That sort of pain is not the enemy; on the contrary, it can be a great agent for personal growth. Unfortunately, what he says may even be extrapolated by those who are suffering from mental pain to take drugs or escape regularly into soporific states to avoid experiencing ANY pain.

Andrew Kaplan:



*** That is an exaggerated extrapolation from popular understanding of electroencephalography, which, incidentally is being analysed more frequently today in conjunction with fMRI (functional MRI), because EEGs on their own are notoriously difficult to interpret or rely upon. The alpha state is thrown into far too many pseudoscientific discussions on performance, stress management and entering "the zone" by people who have inadequate knowledge of what these electrical markers of brain activity really mean (as if anyone really knows, anyway, yet!).

If you simply relax with your eyes closed and allow your breathing to naturally slow down, your brain will produce greater alpha (about 7-13Hz). That breathing does not have to be nasal or diaphragmatic, even though this method has been promoted by yogic lore for millenia. You can also increase the amount of alpha by relaxing and allowing the eyes to rotate upwards. Or, if you wish to spend some money on another toy, buy one of those headsets which flashes lights or plays relaxing sounds to you (actually, these toys, like HemiSync and AlphaStim, do work up to a point).

Andrew Kaplan:



***The connection between breathing and brain wave modulation has been studied for many decades, especially since hyperventilation (usually with open mouth) is one of the methods used to test for epilepsy. The "wakeful, relaxed" state with eyes closed and slow breathing is well known to be associated with production of more alpha, but there is no difference in the wave activity, whether you breath slowly with mouth open or closed (or with one nostril open and the other closed, as is used in some yogic practices). As a matter of fact, all of these claims being made for breath control come from a fascinating yoga practice known as "pranayama" - for much more information on this extensive (and, in some cases, very genuine) topic, see any serious books on yoga or carry out a simple web search.

Andrew Kaplan:

<According to Dr. Douillard, Coopers studies have shown for over ten years that anything above 60% of maximum training for five or more hours a week will significantly increase the production of free radicals in the body.

*** If you wish to read Cooper's writings on this, see his book, "Anti-Oxidant Revolution". Cooper, by the way, was referring to endurance activity, not maximal weightlifting.

After reading all this nonsense I contacted Master R Mooney for a private lesson yesterday.

I agreed to pay him $100 as soon as he could throw me with or without physical contact.

I left after 45 minutes, with my $100 still in my pocket.

Another chi-hugger bites the dust.

Wow. I knew the guy was a little rabid, but he's just spinning out now. I went ahead and signed up all nice and proper so it's harder for him to spoof my name.

Not exactly the introduction to this board I expected. Nice to meetcha, everyone. My name is Chris Rankin and I've been studying chinese martial arts for a few years now.

Thanks to all you for real folks who posted for real info and opinions on fa jing. Maybe in a few days we can go back to discussing it rationally without all the static.

Ok guys, I'm investigating now. I will force everybody to sign up for passwords and supply valid E-mail address if not cleaned up.
- Ron

After reading all this nonsense I contacted Grandmaster R Mooney for a private lesson today.

I agreed to pay him $200 as soon as he could move me without physical contact.

I left after less than a minute, with my $100 still in my pocket. He was generous and took only half.

Another skeptical opinion bites the dust.

I would like to redirect the discussion a bit. For the record, I am skeptical at best (closer to a decided non-believer) when it comes to the ability to effect anyone other than the weak or like minded without physical contact. My question is concerned with the limits of the control one can exert on another with physical contact involved. I have spent a fair amount of time studying and practicing various joint techniques and have seen varying degreees of effectiveness based on the skill of the practitioner applying the technique and the physical characteristics and skill of the person on the receiving end of the technique. Specifically, some people possess a degree of flexibility that limits the effectiveness; some are able to read the technique being applied and counter it appropriately, either with easily observable counter-moves or by redirecting the force through the tan tien to the ground. Other critcal factors included the degree of co-operation between the practitoners and the element of surprise, specifically if the technique to be applied was known in advance to the parties involved or was spontaneosuly applied. These factors are readily understandable to me. Having established the grounding of my query, on to my question. I recently found a local internal school where I am studying what the school labels as "classical yang style tai chi chuan." The head of the school has been practicing tai chi for close to 50 years, and is chinese. In addition to the form work, the curriculum includes push hands and fa jin training. While I have observed and participated in this before, I saw something this weekend that piqued my curiosity. One of the senior students worked with a number of other students in the push hands drill, and exerted a degree of physical control over them, while maintaining physical contact, that was extraordinary, bordering on the incredulous. By this I mean the control was not being exerted by means of any orthodox visible technique. While this person was not putting on the airs of a mystic, rather his appearance and manner suggested a pragmatist, he referred to "chi" amd "meridian work" as the source of his control in an offhand manner. [I do not wish to trigger a discussion of "chi" and its various permutations at this juncture. While not a classically trained chinese scholar, I am fairly familiar with most such explanations and discussions.] As I am a new student there, I would generally not be allowed to participate in these exercises, and not wishing to breach etiquette I did not follow my instincts, which was to see if he could obtain similar results on me. (I will pursue this avenue when the timing seems right.) Any thoughts of serious nature to explain this? I will concede a degree of power of suggestion may be involved, but I have been in a number of training halls over the years, and this does not strike me as a haven for the earthy-crunchy type, but a school for those interested in classical martial training. Thank you for reading this post, and any thoughtful comments that may result.
wtjoyce

p.s How 'bout them Patriots?

Ok Guys. I removed the statements made under other people's monikers.

Our integrated father-mother which art in Empty Force heaven,
Hallowed be thy method
Thy force and power come,
Thy practice will be done empty as it is in Shi Jing heaven,
Give us this day our daily delusion
And forgive us our trespasses for using authentic martial art method
As we forgive those that trespass and espopuse fantasy I-Chuan principle,
And lead us not into temptation to use real martial force or placebo free method,
For thine is the Empty Force kingdom
The commercial power and the Li free glory
For ever and ever