I'm interested in specific exercises people train in to develop timing and awareness, key elements in either responding to a first strike or making the first hit yourself. In aikido, for example, one exercise we did with high repetition was focus on the movement of the attacker's torso, and practice timing of the kiai and our own movement forward so as to momentarily "freeze" the attacker.

In xingyi, I've practiced with varying the rhythm in the two-person drills to develop more flexible response timing (instead of just chugging out one-two-three-four, all on the same count).

I just do what Tim teaches me and try to spar (semi-cooperative and non-cooperative) as much as I can. Tim has a whole bunch of drills and exercises that help develop timing and awareness. I'm not really sure if I should be giving away the Shen Wu curriculum. I consider that Tim's intellectual property. Your best bet is to go to the Dojo and book a couple private lessons with Tim and maybe attend a couple of classes.

That's fine, Meynard. I was just curious whether people engaged in drills specifically geared towards timing and awareness of the opponent's position. Like you say, sparring is important, ultimately more important than drills, since it is the most realistic "exercise" to practice timing and awareness.

No doubt it would be worthwhile to book some time with the Shen Wu guy when I'm in LA. And/or plug into a seminar there or somewhere else if Tim's on the road.

Tom,
Tim will be in Portland Or. on Friday Oct 13th for a Nei Gong seminar. Then he will be with me here in Roseburg,Oregon for a seminar Sunday Oct 15th. Your welcome to contact me for more details i.e. price time etc...

In Wing Chun we have many drills that enhance timing, flow, sensitivity, and train the eyes. Chi Sao one armed and two armed (predetermined, random, and blindfolded), Wooden dummy practice, and sparring drills as well as free sparring.

Tom,

I have had a lot of experience teaching students to develop timing and awareness. I teach Tai Ji in several retirement centers in LA and Santa Barbra.

My teacher always said it is best to learn 'body method' as if you don't have arms. This trains the body to NOT rely on the arms/hands to deflect blows.


1. learning to use the waist to absorb and
nuetralize blows and kicks.
[I duct tape the students hands together
behind their back. Then chase them around
the room throwing real punches they can
either absorb and nuetralize or not. The
choice is the students. This way they learn
to judge the slight movement my torso has
to make just before I hit them.]

2. sensitivity drills.
[once the student has learned to deflect
my punches and kicks, I blindfold them
and continue to rain punches and kicks on
them. They quickly learn to hear a
punch or kick coming, although they are less
likely to 'move' or 'slip' punches when
sight has been taken away. If anyone can
explain that one to me I would appreciate it]

3. body conditioning.
[assuming the student is doing well with 1 & 2
I remove the duct tape from their eyes
and begin breaking boards of various
thickness over their shoulders, thighs,
heads, backs and chests.]

By the end of our first lesson most students have
gained so much understanding of true Tai Ji they often weep out of joy.

I am available for seminars and demonstrations.
I generally work with elderly or preteens.

I hope this plan helps in your training.
Bob #2

Thanks for the tip about the October workshops, Bob. Oregon is definitely closer than LA.

I stayed in Roseburg back in April, driving down to the Bay Area. Nice little town. I like southern Oregon.

Bob #2:

So you beat up old ladies and you're a pedophile as well? You truly impress me. Your sarcasm is clumsy and misplaced, though. By the way, if you ever need sensitivity drilled into you, I'd be happy to oblige. I won't need any help.

Tom,

I do not "beat up" old ladies. I "train" old ladies [old men too!] to prepare them for actual fighting. I'm sure Tim and several other good martial artists could classify some of their past training as getting "beat up" by a teacher. And they wouldn't have developed into such good fighters without it! So there.

I'd like to train your parents! I'll bet you $300
that in just 3 months I could train either of your parents so well that they could beat the hell out of you in a no rules competition. ARE YOU UP FOR IT, MOUTHY?! Come on, put your money where your mouth is! I'll train them for free.
2-4 hours a day and we'll have the match at the venue of your choice and I'll video tape it and post it online.

If "pedophile" means bad-ass then yes.. I'm PROUD TO BE A PEDOPHILE.

I have to go. I have a class to train.

Bob #2,
The blindfolded training in Wing Chun is the most advanced stage in each method of Chi Sao. Chi Sao could be compared with Push hands in Tai Ji. Chi Sao begins with single hand training both cross arm and parallel armed predetermined. It advances to random training. Next to blindfolded predetermined and finally to blindfolded at random. This procedure is the same in two hand Chi Sao. This is a method of developing contact sensitivity not sparring. I presume the same thing could be done in push hands, although I have never heard of anyone doing it. I hope this clarifies it for you.

No, Bob #2, my parents have shuffled off far enough that they are beyond your training, or mine. Actually, it was an invitation to train me. And no, I wouldn't pay you, because it would be you who would be getting the lesson. A lesson in sensitivity, of course.

You're proud to be a pedophile? Just come up to Washington. The law up here provides FREE lifetime civil commitment--and sensitivity training--for admitted pedophiles.

Oh boy, I leave you guys alone for one day and look what happens to my discussion board.
In lieu of my well intentioned but overprotective student Meynard's advice, I'll talk about a couple of drills designed to improve timing and awareness.
Similar to the Aikido drill Tom mentions above, we also start beginners off by having them watch their partner's chest, and have them react to motion by saying "stop" when the partner moves inside of their safe distance. Next, we have a footwork drill in which partner A advances, retreats, or circles while partner B must follow, keeping the same distance between them as if a stick were pressed between their chests. Again, partner B is trained to watch only the upper chest. Next, partner A wears headgear and a chest protector and "stalks" partner B. The second partner A moves inside partner B's safe distance (the distance at which A can reach B without stepping again, or without leaning the torso forward, similar to the concept of "Ma Ai" in Aikido), partner B strikes partner A as fast and directly as possible. Once again, partner B is trained to focus on partner A's torso (upper chest) and not to be confused by A's arm movements or verbal abuse. This drill is eespecially important to train students how not to get sucker punched by allowing an opponent to get too close. These drills progress to various sparring drills with A on offense, punching and kicking at will while B moves and defends. More advanced students must defend against an opponent wearing gloves and shin pads, who is allowed to punch and kick them at will. The defender is not allowed to strike back, he is only allowed to defend, shoot, clinch and then throw the attacker (all the while the attacker is attempting to stay on his feet and strike). Finally, students spend alot of time free sparring.

Tom,

Are you calling me a foot lover?
("Ped"- Latin for foot, "o" Latin for "o", "phile"- Latin for obsessed)? You're a sick little man. I told one of my elderly students what you called me and it turns out he knows Latin.

I don't even have feet. For your information I had to chew them off to escape from an over-turned car in Death Valley in 1982. I'm sure you heard about it when it happened. I was featured on "That's Incredible" on the same episode with Chuck the Skiing Squirel. MY WIFE DIDN'T SURVIVE THAT CRASH!
I was trapped with her for two days trying to gnaw through my own ankle bones. Thanks to you I had several intense flashbacks today. I had been doing fine for the last few years and now you've ruined it. RUINED IT with your use of a dead language. I hope you're happy. I hope you sleep well tonight while I have night terrors and nocturnal incontinence.

You just think about your words next time mister.
Don't call a nub-footed man a 'foot lover' unless
you've walked 10 miles in his nub covers.

Bob #2,

I think you missed something. Tom was calling you a PEDOPHILE which means- a child molestor. He's been trying to start trouble with everyone.

I, for one, I'm sorry to hear about your wife and your feet. I saw that episode of Thats Incredible and yours was one riviting story. It stuck with me all these years. I've always wondered what ever happened to you... and that squirel.

I'd like to come watch one of your classes sometime.

Thats a classic Bob #2.

Me, trying to start trouble with anybody? Aw come on guys. I'm in awe of a man who gnawed through his ankles to escape. There is simply no submission hold that would contain Bob #2. He'd chew his way out of it.

Sorry, Bob Two. You shamed me into empathy. Now, about those nub covers. Do they come in different styles?

Tom,
Wouldn't you agree that Bob #2's sarcasm was well placed and quite coordinated that time? Bob #2 you had me and my kids in stitches! I know I'll never call anyone a Pedophile before I check for feet!

Sum Guye,
You don't know anything about Latin, DO YOU! I bet you can't name a single city in Latin America, loser. The last thing this discussion board needs is a jerk like you trying to insite people and cause more conflict.

Tom,
Nub pads come in several different styles, thicknesses and color patterns. You should get to know them all cause one day soon I'll leave one inside you.

Bob,
I'd be careful about posting things like "kids in stitches" if I were you... we have a couple of real sickos in here... real sickos.

Bob #2 you are .
P.S. Thanks for giving me a chance to play with my new ClipArt downloads. Oops!

Well Bob 2 I'm still waiting for that promised attempt with the nub pad. You're pathetic.

Tim thanks for describing some of your drills. Shen Wu is thorough.

Tom,

Are you forgetting the fact that I beat the hell out of you at The Rump Ranger's bar in downtown Seattle Friday night!! I knew I should've video taped it. Then the whole world could see you
in the pool room groveling like the wuss you are- screaming "please! please! I don’t know you- I don't want any trouble" and the noise you made when I stuffed my right nub knee-deep into your rump- God that was funny. You may deny it sir- but it's easily verifiable by checking the records at the emergency room where you had your jaw wired back together and the nub pad removed from your anus.

Sorry, Bob 2. I wasn't in Seattle on Friday night. Must've been some other boyfriend of yours. Got a thing for beating up faggots, huh? You're such a brave boy. Just like the guys who did in Matthew Shepard.

Next time, Bob darling, don't fly all the way to Seattle looking for me. You're more likely to find me in Van Nuys.

You've got about as much martial credibility as sum guye, doing that circle-stepping neck-cranking move after spending so much time describing how narrow and confined the space was. What a bunch of pathetic losers you two are. And so effective, flaming on the net.

Ron, you'd better move this over to the flame room and douse it. Thanks.

Tom,

I don't use terms like 'faggots'. And I don't boss around the sysop cause that can get you blocked from the discussion board. (I'm sure if Ron wants any shit from you he'll squeeze your head)

I'll certainly keep an eye out for you in Van Nuys. I've got another nub cover with your name on it.

A 'bunch' is usually more than two.

Sorry, Tom. I guess I have a different definition of what a flame is. I don't consider what Bob #2 says as flaming. I think of Bob #2 as entertainment. Secondly, if I moved your part of the discussion to the flame room it would make Bob#2's banter sound stupid.

I certainly don't need anyone's help sounding stupid.

I wonder who the heck that Tom guy I worked over in Seattle was? Dang it all.

Tom,

You started a thread asking people to detail actual fights- I obliged and provided a story that YOU (posting as 'Sum Nut' AND 'Man of a Thousand Faces') went to the trouble of complementing- and now you insult the same story-

Change medications, man.

Tim,

Thanks for a great seminar. And thanks for being an extraordinary interpreter. Lo's the real deal, a genuine bad-ass. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Bob #2,

You always crack me up.

Sum Guye-
I don't know how the hell you are duplicating my IP address-- your martial arts skill and story telling abilities are matched by you mastery of modern technology!

I wish I could've attended Luo's seminar- but I was in Seattle beating up the wrong guy then stranded in an overturned car again... you don't want to know what I had to gnaw off to escape this time.

Sincerely,
Roberto Numero Dos

Tim,

Hypothetically speaking, if you had gotten so angry at an internet idiot that you wound up locating him in an unfamiliar city, then hypothetically exchanged some fierce words and hypothetically bashed his face into the edge of a pool table multiple times and, in a bizarre hypothetical rage, pulled his pants down and hypothetically shoved your footless leg about 14 inches into his rectum before hypothetically putting your cigar out on his eye... then, later, you hypothetically realized you had made a drastic mistake and beat up the wrong guy- an innocent, unlucky stranger- all of which you hypothetically feel really bad about... would you go back and apologize face to face--- or would you just chalk it up as a learning experience?

I've certainly learned to better control my anger through this experience...hypothetically

Sorry for your misunderstanding, SG. I recall the comparison of your "fight to John Gilbey's stories, rather elegant fiction also done under a pseudonym. The reason why I think you're a lying sack of shit about the encounter you posted on 7/26 under "Off Topic: Street Fights" is the physical impossibility of your circle-stepping maneuver within the confines of the narrow space you so painstakingly described.

As far as the way you handled the encounter, there's nothing to admire. In your little story you deliberately escalated the conflict by grabbing his hair and pulling his head back. He wasn't an "opponent" til you acted to make him one. A pretty stupid maneuver on your part . . . if you're going to write martial arts fiction, son, at least make it credible.

Something more along the lines of how to handle your claimed encounter more effectively is illustrated by Ken Shamrock:

"Now the man in cowboy boots has sideled up and offered his hand. 'Hey, aren't you Ken Shamrock, the ultimate fighter?' the redhead says, his words morphed by an intemperate ingestion of Coors. Shamrock shakes the fellow's hand . . . The man praises Shamrock for a few minutes, then starts bragging about his own fighting prowess. He's won a few bar fights in his time, he says. 'I stay in pretty good shape, too. I can still bench press 300,' he says. Shamrock looks into the man's eyes and sees something switch on, something he doesn't like, something he often saw when he patrolled saloons as a bouncer. 'Hey, buddy, let me buy you a beer,' Shamrock says, slapping cash on the bar. The man continues, ' . . . You don't look so damn mean . . . I bet I could take you. I'll bet I could take you right here, right now.' Shamrock feels a jolt of the anger, the old anger, welling to the surface. It would be so easy, so satisfying, to allow the man to swing, and then crush him. But Shamrock holds steady. 'You never know,' Shamrock says, sliding a fresh Coors in front of the deluded man. 'Nice meeting you. I gotta run.' Shamrock shakes hands with his friends and departs."

from Ken Shamrock and Richard Hanner, "Inside the Lion's Den"

Something for little lion cubs to consider.