Hi everyone!

I was wondering, how far chi can take you (,what are its limits, what is possible but not common etc.)? What are some good practices to notice chi inside you?

Thanks in advance,
Michael Kummer

Chi will take you as far as the ability to market to gulible wannabe mystics.

A good practice to notice chi inside you= close your eyes, relax, breathe deep and hear your heart beating.

What makes the the heart beat?

good question. i am glad you asked it.

i think "chi" has often been used loosely in a way which confutes the term with jin/jing/ging. while it's one part of jin/jing/ging, it is not (as i understand it) the same thing.

so i understand those who dismiss the word "chi", because of the way the word's been used. often, IMO, in a sloppy way. and no, you don't need to "study it" to be effective in fighting, IMO.

but, has anybody who can, felt the chi radiation from chakras on someone who is dying? over a period of a couple days? i have. the last center to go is the dan tien.

this corresponds with the brain-stem. the instance was a death by stroke.

this was an eye opening experience for me. i don't say this to argue anything. i don't know how many are open to feeling energy radiation (whatever it is called); or how many have had this particular (un-asked-for) opportunity.

so: i don't think you need to give a darn about chi to be able to fight. but i do, subjectively, believe it's a part of the body's vital processes. my basis for this is purely subjective--like any feeling (e.g., pain)you know when it's there, even if others don't feel it.

anyway, like i say, i am not arguing with anyone. just sharing something which might be of interest to someone.

best....

It is T. Very interesting. So, chi warms the body?

i don't know. i was just inspired to respond to your question about what makes the heart beat. your question made me think of the whole "life force" issue; and it reminded me of that particular experience i'd had--as the experience was an example of the "life force" leaving a person. it struck me at the time there was a corellation (in my subjective experience) between my perception of changes in chakra activity, and the "objective" process that was happening as described by the doctors. i don't think there's any way that such a correlation could be objectively verified; but it was a striking experience for me. best...

You are awesome man. I like the mystery handle you are using, "Internalenthusiast" it's the bomb. As for my thoeries on what Chi is pretty much what you've said. My grandfather like your master has told me not to talk about it openly with people since I was a child because he didn't want people to know about it. It's like a family secret, we practice in a specail away to build/attain Chi, that's all I can say. It's what we call our vital/internal energy, one can attain it through proper breathing and other techniques. Many of these methods of attaining Chi are well hidden since ancient times. My grandfather knows atleast 3 other families who study one form of attaining Chi or another and they only teach within their families for many generations. Can I shoot fireballs, like you I can't do that nor can I walk on water. One day, I'll master my vital energy.

I haven't seen any 80ft jumps, but I've seen intense stuff. Two finger handstands, Giant slabs of rock broken over heads, dude from china went to a martial arts tournament and let random people from the audience hit him as hard as they could and the hits didn't move him. He got hit by this Giant Pro boxer dude too. Right in the gut. That was like the hardest punch I've ever seen. Dudes ran over by cars, needles stuck into the outside of the eyes while being attached to a rope holding buckets of water, then the guy stands up and swings them around. Smoke from this 85 year old dudes fingertips. Etcetera, etcetera.

According to legend, when martial arts were at it's highest peak in ancient China, it is said many were capable of flight through Chi. Today people are doing it through wires in movies! LOL!

youngchang, thanks for your comments. just to be clear, i haven't had any teachers who told me either to talk about chi, or not to talk about it.
nothing was really secret in any way, just a lot of standing and hard work.

what i wrote about above was just a personal experience i'd had--attempting to correlate my subjective impressions with what the doctors were saying was happening.

fwiw, there was, i believe a recent television show which focused on certain demonstrations of the kind you describe (performed by buddhist monks). the show was describing the physics behind the feats. sorry i can't remember the name of the show. i didn't see it, but there were clips of it somewhere on the net.

best...

I guess it is time to add my two cents. I am Doctor of Oriental Medicine in private practice and an Internal Martial Artist. It is hard to talk about Qi in any way that does not ivoke the fantastic. How ever I have begun to use the following when speaking to Martial Artists and Medical Doctors.

"Qi is translated as Breath or Energy in Chinese Medicine, but this is inadiquate to communicate the breadth of its application. We can say that something exists because of Qi. We can say that Qi flows through the Acupuncture Meridians. We can say that a person is stable in their stances because they have good Qi. Each of these terms is different in its meaning in english and in its application."

"Think of Qi as a philosophical or conceptual place holder. It holds the place of a concept that may not be definable in easy terms. For example when the Chinese started to describe the actions of acupuncture 2500+ years ago they did not have the physiological understanding of human anatomy. They did not understand that nerves existed and that sensation and especially pain was transmited along these paths. They only understood cause and effect. So they called the means by which the sensation travelled through the nerves Qi. We now know that one of the reasons that acupuncture works as a pain control technique is due an endorphine mediated response at various neurological conections such as spine and brain stem. This however does not explain all of the mechanisms why acupucture works. The concept of Qi is clinically and philosophically useful in the practice of Chinese medicine. The diagnostic models are built on the use of the term Qi in all of its variations. Because the system of diagnosis and treatment is internally consistant, the results of treatment are positive and significant."

"This applies to the Internal Martial Artist. When they are stable in stance it is due to correct body alignment. If they can not be pushed over we know that this is due to correct application of physics by our body. We as practitioners can not always explain why. So we use the term Qi. As long as we keep in mind the conceptual nature of the term we are not falling into the fantastical."

I for one still use the term Qi in both my Acupuncture Practice and Martial Arts Teaching. It is far too useful a term. However understand I am not eliminating the intentional nature of both these practices. The mind is still the most powerful tool we have in both Medicine and Martial Arts. We can not explain all of what we do or achieve in the concrete terms of physics and physiology. Because of that we must have terms like Qi. Just remember that it is conceptual not necesarily manifest in nature.

thanks, mr. froehlich, for your thoughts. i'm certainly not an "expert", whatever that might mean, on the subject.

imo, stability, stance, power, etc., are easiest to communicate in terms of alignment, flow of force, etc. talking about "chi" won't get people to physical results as well as these more basic subjects.

yet, i'm personally not ready to say that someone's sense of "chi" as a palpable sensation is irrelevant.

the best description i've heard (from many years ago) is that "chi" is like the elephant to the blind men. one feels the trunk and says it's like a snake, another feels the leg, and says it's like a tree, another....

in any case, mind (as you point out) is a powerful thing. as is imagery. an inanimate object (a refrigerator), cannot "center itself", or extend chi, establish "flow", etc. all of which involve the mind/intent in a fluid manner.

which is to say, in living things, there may be more operating than simple "mechanics." well, i didn't expect this discussion to go on so far. but i hope it's useful. best to all...

Well said Doctor, but what is the mind? ;-)