The people at school nowadays always want to be cool and look tough and sometimes avoiding a fight is very hard (if you try and back out you will look like a coward). It is common for people to start bullying you, and you have to fight back, so once you beat them up they will go on thinking they are tough enough to beat you and lost by chance, so they follow you relentlessly. I have problems with this system as I have gotten in at least 4 fights this year at school. Can anyone help me?

I think this is one of the most important questions for martial arts, and even life in general (look at politics these days). I also think that really knowing the answer to this question is a kind of wisdom that you have to obtain through experience, and that there is not anything useful that you will be able to learn by somebody just telling you a rule or something. So how can you get this wisdom quickly enough to be able to deal with your present problem? I would suggest:

1. Join the best fighting-oriented martial arts school you can find in your area, and put your whole purpose of being alive into it.

2. Every time you get into a situation where you might have to fight, remember that successfully resolving a real life situation (either by defusing or defending) will give you as much benefit as spending one year doing training exercises. This way you can realize how much you have to gain by begin totally present in your real life situations.

3. Dont worry about making a mistake one time (fighting when you didnt have to, trying not to fight when you should have). But make sure you take the time to sit down after every event and analyze what happened and why, so you never have to repeat a lesson (mistake) more than once or twice.

Also, I think that Tony Blauer has some of the most useful long-distance teaching materials (videos, etc) for this kind of topic. In fact, I have copied your question and re-posted it to his forum at:

http://www.mma.tv/TUF

And I bet you will get some interesting responses there. Anyway, once you have gotten some insight into this question I hope you will come back to the board and share it with us.

If you've gotten into (4) fights in one year at the same school then one of two things is going on.

1- You're at the wrong school. If that's the type of attitude and lack of control your classmates are picking up there- the school has issues and you're wasting time and money there.

2- You're bringing it on yourself. Maybe you can't see it yet- but maybe you're putting off some sort of vibe that makes people want to get confrontational with you and possibly you then escalate matters.

If 'fights' at the school are common place- it's number one. (so stop going cause it's impossible to hit what isn't there).

If there have only been a handfull of fights at the school- and you've been in the majority of them, you may need to do a little soul searching and learn how to be a little less of a turd.
(if that IS the case- then realize that you're making it an uncomforatble scene for non-violent folks who genuinely want to study there- and in the long run costing your teacher to lose students who don't want to be jumped at school.)

Hey Shane,

I think hes talking about "at school" like those big cement buildings where the government teaches kids how to endure boredom.

exactly gourd

ah. well then... that does change things.

There are ways of responding to threats and intimidation that give your 'attacker' the realization that if he decideds to jump you, win or loose, they'll be proving they are they one with the problem. It takes lots of quick thinking, diplomacy and accepting that YOU might not come off as "cool and looking tough".

I could go one for pages try to explain how to 'win' a fight by losing it- but I'd bore the heck out of everyone. The good news is- when 'school' ends- so does all that crap
(except for the fools who carry that type of maccho attitude around with them for the remainder of their lives: ie. the turds of the world). They are out there- but you're no longer required by law to spend 7 hours a day, 5 days a week locked in the hallowed halls of education with them.

Thanks for reminding me how glad I am that I'm no longer in school.

Also- you may want to check with the staff at your school and learn about requirments for early graduation. I didn't find out until well after highschool that with the right information and motivation one can complete school years earlier than expected.

The upside is- you'll end the nightmare early and subsequently will remain so occupied you'll have little time to worry about the trouble makers.

The downside is- the trouble makers will probably see you as a brown-nosing bookworm.

But think about it... would you rather be Mike Tyson or Bill Gates in the long run?

Curious, the next time you get into a fight, hurt them really, really bad so that if they survive, they gotta spend a month in ICU. If you get arrested, don't tell the truth no matter what you do and no matter how good or logical the truth may be. People don't want to hear it. Say that Chuck Heston and TV made you do it, or you were being homosexually(racially, religiusly, etc.) harrassed or it was because of preservatives in school lunches and aspirin. Better yet, think of a combination. Or, try doing nothing and not giving a (hoot) about what others think.

Curious Fool,

Note the date on the last post before heeding such advice, as St. Patty's Day tends to be a day for intoxicatin' celebration (at least for those whose favorite color is green). But then again, a-leprechaun-told-me-do-it approach just might be the ticket (sorry, I just had to write that -- a leprechaun told me to).

Dude, if you're in High School & being picked on, then you're "behind enemy lines." You may want to consider learning how to think like a downed Naval Aviator, or a reconnaissance Marine on patrol (but without the Ka-Bar & firearm -- or the fire support, etc., 'cause school principals tend to frown on such -- especially Naval Artillery, for it's so noisy, & I'm trying to give you things to consider that won't land both of us in big trouble with your school staff, parents, & "the law" even).

CAMOUFLAGE: don't wear anything that makes you stand out as a target (you'll have to figure that out for yourself, for it's your environment, not mine; figure out ways to make yourself less noticeable when out-in-the-open).

CONCEALMENT: anything you can put between you & your enemies that keeps them from noticing you (it is a lot like hiding, whether you're on the move or staying put).

COVER: that which protects (it often conceals as well): usually solid objects you keep between you & your enemies that can keep projectiles from hitting you. Consider all angles of attack (& include thought of possible ricochets & flying breakage/debris).

Other things you may wish to consider are: (1) improvised, lightweight body armor (things you wear that can help protect you -- but recall the requirements of camouflage); & (2) improvised arms (innocuous things that can be used to help protect yourself).

Also, be (a little) curious -- but stop being a fool (if your situation is really dangerous, then you're going to need your wits about you); you might have to act the fool for a time, but don't be one when the chips are down & it's time for appropriate action (or inaction). All of the above will require a lot of conscious thought.

Pick your battles, and get out of Dodge (er, High School) just as soon as you can. "He who fights, then runs away, lives to fight another day." And if it's really dangerous, then, "He who runs away (using the above criteria), lives." Your "gut feeling" always gives the true advice (your "rational" thought will often go to work in order to over-ride or otherwise ignore your gut; so just be wary of that).

P.S.: My gut tells me that you should forget all about leprechauns.

I would like to add four things to this discussion.

I have been in two street fights in my life that have gone to court.

Fighting sounds romantic and nobody gets hurt in movies. In real life expect maybe four things.

1) You will spend much time in court losing wages and it will be very inconvenient.

2) You will be sued as I did to my attacker and lose money or house, etc. depending on how bad the injuries or if you started the first punch.

3) This one is the most important that people don't realize but judges see all the time, the one punch death. You strike somebody and they hit their head on the concrete and die. You are now charged for killing somebody.

4) I have learned to call the police if you can. Forget the Martial arts macho route unless it is life or death.

This applies in the U.S.A.

Curious Fool,

What SysOp wrote is no joke -- especially for well-meaning adults (or minors tried as adults) in the U.S. today. Please re-read his post & take it to heart. Again, avoid fighting; but if a fight is truly unavoidable, then remember that "He who fights, then runs away, lives to fight another day" means you must escape -- completely ('cause criminal minds know how to use "the law" against us common folk); this is very difficult to do in high school, or in a community where you may be well known (so, "get out of Dodge" ASAP applies).

Today when considering the U.S. Justice System (courts & whatnot), it's best to think of an insane assylum where the patients have taken over ('cause -- unless you're wealthy -- you'll rarely get justice; and wealthy or not, "government" entities & agents will end up with a lot, if not all of what you have). "Our" government has done -- & is doing -- everything that's against the advice given by this nation's founding fathers (the Federal gov't. has done nothing but gain power & momentum to destroy the People -- and one way they do this is to needlessly get us involved in foreign affairs; even the greenbacks in your wallet are a foreign affair). You have far more to be concerned about than a small group of high-school bullies; you've got governments, banks, & industries working together (like a group of sharks), & they will bury folks like you & I -- if & when they think they can profit by doing so. Welcome to the new (old) world order; do your best to persevere (without becoming a part of the problem yourself) -- did I mention that you'd need your wits about you?

As a former California prosecutor (in Imperial county) and former public defender (in San Bernadino county) I agree 100% with SysOps' comments.

I usually just laugh and shake my head when I hear a lot of the childish nonsense about "kicking a** and taking names" that one hears in cyberspace.

I used to hear the same nonsense from my clients when I was a public defender while talking to them....just before their felony arraignments back in the courthouse jail.

take care,
Brian

Ah, an opportunity seems to have arrived to dust off the shining old nugget:

Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six. Best to avoid anyone who is trying to give you that choice.

The rule of law is the foundation of American Democracy! But ... uh ... well, until we go up to live in the bosom of the totalitarian paradise in the sky ... there are some lines that you just got to draw for yourself. The positive side of the equation is, by studying how to draw these lines "artfully" you can learn the meanings in the word freedom that dont have anything to do with how expensive your attorney is.

My 2 cents.

I like unguarded Pass'es philosphy, but seriously folks....I hate to sound condescending just like the "grownup" idiots who used to talk down to me when I was a teen, BUT....despite all this concern over youth violence, schoolyard fights go back literally hundreds of years. Don't take most of it too seriously, practice restraint, and by the time you are 24 or so, you may be VERY surprised to find out which of your schoolmates turn out to be the REAL A-holes, and maybe some of the former bullies turn out kinda cool.

I'd like to point out that all the legal trouble Sysops went through were over fights in which he was the VICTIM of attack (in the first case, by several opponents). In the process of defending himself, he injured the attackers and ended up defending himself again in court!

Unless your life depends on it, fighting in the street is a bad idea.

One defending oneself from attackers should not be the one blamed. This is simply wrong. Could I add that WE are the only ones who can change the way "the system" operates? Various civic organizations have done it, but the bottom line is, we are the ones sitting in a jury box. Too bad the general public gets brainwashed into human sheep, but we can fight some of that also if we stick together.

I mean't to imply in my original post to Curious fool that he knows the bullies at school. It sounds like he has fought with some already.

This not a spur of the moment assault like if you had to make a quick decision on the street.

He should go the principal or police and report it so that the bullies and their parents are talked to.
That if it continues that legal action will be taken.

Kenneth Sohl, & Others,

I fought this battle ten years ago & lost. A couple years later I met a guy who did the same -- with the same outcome. Good theory, but it isn't going to happen (Dude, the bankers had Pres. Kennedy killed using multiple shooters, the eye-witnesses were killed, real evidence was hidden, false evidence was produced, & the public was fed a story of a magic bullet... and they swalled it whole, then they just went about their daily lives as if it wasn't all that important).

People these days rarely think; rather they just drink in & absorb what the newspeople & government tell them; and that becomes the majority opinion which they'll fight to keep. Almost everything you think you know is a lie. President Bush (Shrub) was pictured against a background of boxes of things marked "Made in USA" as he gave a speech about buying American products (note that the newsmedia presented us the photo); the photo had been doctored; the boxes originally said "Made in China." Big or small, almost everything in the mass media & government is a lie (generally, truth is twisted or otherwise suppressed). It's 1984 -- & we've always been at war.

There's simply too much brain-washing-like garbage & too little education on important matters out there in the public's attention zone (note that for the most part, since around 1842, government has controlled education in this nation -- and OSS/CIA Operations Paperclip & Mockingbird have had major influence upon what the public "sees" in newspapers & on TV); even juries are mis-instructed as to what there duties truly are (see what they were in very old court cases & contrast that with what the system tells today's jurors).

People today have been systematically brain-washed/influenced at so many levels (even one's parents pass on bad-info as if it were true -- because they were influenced by the propaganda as well); often it takes weeks, months, & even years of constant discussion just to "scrape" enough propaganda out of a person's thoughts for him or her to begin seeing the truth (and there's a terrible feeling one gets when the truth is discovered). Plus, almost all aspects of our lives are affected by corruption -- that the truth of it all becomes overwhelming.

And "American Democracy" -- har! There are 3 different USAs, and only one is set up to be a legislative democracy; the citizens of the 50 countries (a different USA) were to live in a Republic; but due to poor education & other governmental trickery, these citizens of today embrace the control of the legislative democracy that was only supposed to control the Federal territories & a few small areas (certain buildings & shipyards). But again, comments on this board just re-prove to me that our educational system is failing the People & manufacturing mass ignorance: Sheeple.

Bottom Line: Stay out of any unnecessary street fights (as Tim posted above; and escape after any street fight) -- this way you can better avoid the unfair practices of a lying, conniving government.

...and if you're the president, avoid Bankers.

Roberto Numero Dos.

Escape a street fight, OK. But call a cop asap! Cops can assist and apprehend the bad guys while the trail is hot. But, more importantly, establish the association as a good guy. Like a car accident: it's not a felony unless it'•••••-and-run. Escaping a street fight and hiding is jumping from the frying pan into the fire.
The tape of SysOp's running dialog with the police dispatcher during a recent incident may be key to the vindication he got in court. Besides, the law works on facts - truth. At least have truth as a friend, if not the conspirators of power.
BTW, I wouldn't count on the parent of a bully improving anything.